That's a really good idea!
Then I could use the effects out instead of having to create one.
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Then I could use the effects out instead of having to create one.
Good evening, Count Bat. Bleed! Blood! @BassBat_SWE, you are now member #1850 in the Fender Rumble Club. Congratulations and welcome to TalkBass in general and The Club in particular. Put that number in your TalkBass Signature for safe keeping. Then make yourself at home here and on your Rumble Club Wiki page, the repository of all Rumbling wisdom and knowledge. The Stage 800 & Studio 40 section of your wiki will be of particular interest to you. And the TONE APP Support sub-section is very helpful, especially with it's Droopy_TX Rumble Preset Experience sub-sub-section being highly recommended!
Yo, Batty, then be sure and check in to your Rumble LT25, Studio 40 & Stage 800 sub-thread of this main Club thread for all modeling discussions, please. That way we can keep this main thread less complicated for the regular Rumblers. Some people dislike having too many effects built-in to their amps. Personally, I have been loving my Studio 40, with all the same modeling as the Stage 800, for 6 years now! And I can use my Rumble 500 combo to reinforce the volume, if needed.
So, how about telling us a bit about yourself, BassBat, such as your bass experience in general and your Rumble journey in particular? You'll fit right in here since we have all kinds. But we all love to ... ... ...
Rumble On!
I use a pair of 100 V3 amps when we play for an audience. One is 8-ish years old. The other is new and has the pre-post switch and a 4 ohm speaker. I connected them together using the effects send to the effects return and adjusted the master EQ to the 10-2-2-10 position and set it's gain gain 10 (o'clock) and master vol to 12 o'clock. I setup a mic and watched the levels in Reaper. The two cabs were very close in level. The pair is incredibly load with bass volume all the way up. All the controls on the slave unit have no effect except master vol.
All else equal, the power of the new one would be double that of the old one -- it's not. Fender states the new one is "modified". I suspect the over lowered the supply voltage to the power amp modules to limit the power to 100 watts. They may have also adjusted the power stage gain too so the sound level more closely matches the original.
This setup works very well. The schematics I have are simplfied so it is hard to say exactly what Fender did when they "Modified" the new ones. I think the two amps are different enough that the new one should be called a 100 V3.5. Just my opinion.
All else equal, the power of the new one would be double that of the old one -- it's not. Fender states the new one is "modified". I suspect the over lowered the supply voltage to the power amp modules to limit the power to 100 watts. They may have also adjusted the power stage gain too so the sound level more closely matches the original.
This setup works very well. The schematics I have are simplfied so it is hard to say exactly what Fender did when they "Modified" the new ones. I think the two amps are different enough that the new one should be called a 100 V3.5. Just my opinion.
Practicality depends on a lot of unknowns. I haven't read of anyone doing it, that I recall, but if you can get a good deal on the working electronics, and have the know-how, then it could be cool! I know there are others interested in such a thing. Please keep us informed of your progress.
Your positioning of which is master and which is slave has a big bearing on their volume interaction. You must have the new 100 as the slave for its Master to work. With the old 100 as the slave it would always be full blast with no volume control!
The Addendum/Technical Note about the newer one says "this will not change the audio performance of the product." Nice of you to confirm that with your test. I've always just assumed they used the Rumble 800 block diagram, but with a 100 watt power supply, for the newer model.
As far as the V3.5 designation, the Addendum /Tech Note seems like this may just be a "temporary situation", although it's been going on for 3 years so far.
If ever any Rumbles were deserving of an advanced Version number I thought, and still think, the modeling Stage 800 & Studio 40 should be V4! But, apparently, I'm wrong.
I haven't heard of it. Practical is in the mind of the builder.
Yeah, and at least on the 100, there is a lot of wiring between boards which suggests you'd need all the boards. You'd end up with a huge stomp box. Or a huge (for a pedal) box with no/a hard-to-reach bypass switch, or the switch on a cabled pedal (possibly with a switch for the OD as well). Or you could build it into a wedge the size of a smallish pedal board.
I'm not saying don't go for it, just that it might not look like what you are hoping for.
Yeah, Thommy, I bet that was quite a revelation! I occasionally get that with my Rumble 500 combo, too, since most of my jams & gigs use my Studio 40. It's good to "raise the roof" a bit now and then. And these super-powerful Rumbles can sure do that!
I have two of the original v3 and pair them this way, too. Similar settings except I have the gain up higher and master lower. I do it more for the tone of the two 12s than volume, but occasionally need the volume as well.
"All else equal, the power of the new one would be double that of the old one -- it's not."
All other things being equal, the amp would fry. People have contacted Fender to ask about adding an external speaker and Fender was adamant that you should not drop the impedance on their standard R100v3 to below 8 ohms.
Yeah, I think they should call it the v3a at the very least. The problem is that some people would then perceive the v3 as being less desirable and insist on the "better" model (which it is IFF you want the pre/post EQ switch). That said, I think if they were switching to just the newer model they might update the version number. But so far, they aren't.
IIRC, the V-number designation was invented by a very outspoken Rumbler <cough, cough> Linnin <cough> right here in our Club! Then
Poisonally, at this point I think it will take some more updates than the newer R100 have, and discontinuing all current analog V3s, in order to justify any whole number V-number updates. I've also personally tried using the V3a, V3b, V3d designations for various Rumble distinctions, such as this and modeling, but none has seemed to catch on.
Thanks for comments on my post.
1. New one is slave at bottom, Old one is master on top.
2. Using a 4 ohm speaker on an amp designed for an 8 ohm is definitly a bad idea. But a solid state amp CAN be designed to operate with a 2 to 16 ohm speaker. load. Probably a few are, The power supply would have to be designed for the 2 ohm load. Power is Vsquared / R.. I was only talking theoretical.
1. New one is slave at bottom, Old one is master on top.
2. Using a 4 ohm speaker on an amp designed for an 8 ohm is definitly a bad idea. But a solid state amp CAN be designed to operate with a 2 to 16 ohm speaker. load. Probably a few are, The power supply would have to be designed for the 2 ohm load. Power is Vsquared / R.. I was only talking theoretical.
Yes, indeed, terry, Rumbler #83!! The Rumble 800 combo and the Rumble Stage 800 are both designed for a 2.67 ohm minimum load [combo(8 ohm internal) + 4 ohms of extension cab(s)] when setting the Impedance Switch for the 4 ohm extension. And the Rumble 800 HD head is designed to handle a 2.0 ohm load all night long!
Question on the fx loop. I have a 500c and my pedal board includes an Ampeg SGT-DI (I know, sacrilege). If I want to bypass the Rumble preamp and have the SGT-DI be the preamp, is that possible? The user manual doesn't indicate that the fx loop cuts out the preamp.
Yes, it's easily possible, Stealer. Plug your bass into your pedal and the pedal into the R500c FX Return. The Rumble 40/100/200/500 Block Diagram does indicate that the FX Return jack has a cutoff switch for the Rumble pre-amp and all its controls when it has a plug in it, and nothing in the FX Send. You will have to control all the EQ, and the volume, with the pedal!
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I'm I missing something? I understand that the gain, OD, and EQ are associated with the preamp, but I thought the master volume controls the power amp. Are you saying that the FX return also disables the power amp or just disables the volume knob?
Just the Master volume knob which, on the block diagram, is located in the pre-amp among the voicing filters, before the EQ. The power amp is going full on, so begin with your pedal's volume turned way down.
Has anyone ever seen anything from Fender about why they haven't put out a Rumble Preamp Pedal?
My guess is they think it will cut into their amp sales. Just wondering if Fender has ever addressed this.
My guess is they think it will cut into their amp sales. Just wondering if Fender has ever addressed this.
I think that argument goes for every product. Rumble Studio 40 cuts into sales of Rumble 40 AND of Stage 800. Rumble LT 25 cuts into sales of Studio 40. Every product out there cuts into sales of other products.
But it also sells and cuts into sales of other companies. If Fender didn't have a Studio 40, I would probably get a Boss Katana-110 Bass. If I wanted to upgrade and Fender didn't have Stage 800, I'd probably look very hard at Boss Katana-210 Bass. Then there's also stuff like Positive Grid Spark line that's looking good.
Fender could even make a modeling pedal amp using the same processing that their Mustang Micro amplugs use. I'm not in the market for a pedal amp right now, but I was looking at some and I almost pulled the trigger on a Quilter Interbass 45. If Fender had something in that space, I'd definitely give it a shot.
Same goes for a modeling standard sized head. I'm not in the market for one and I'd be more likely to get a Stage 800 instead, since I'd be lugging a cab anyway, but there are a lot of people who would get one.
But it also sells and cuts into sales of other companies. If Fender didn't have a Studio 40, I would probably get a Boss Katana-110 Bass. If I wanted to upgrade and Fender didn't have Stage 800, I'd probably look very hard at Boss Katana-210 Bass. Then there's also stuff like Positive Grid Spark line that's looking good.
Fender could even make a modeling pedal amp using the same processing that their Mustang Micro amplugs use. I'm not in the market for a pedal amp right now, but I was looking at some and I almost pulled the trigger on a Quilter Interbass 45. If Fender had something in that space, I'd definitely give it a shot.
Same goes for a modeling standard sized head. I'm not in the market for one and I'd be more likely to get a Stage 800 instead, since I'd be lugging a cab anyway, but there are a lot of people who would get one.
I've rarely seen the question asked. Maybe once or twice in the past 5 years?
Most amp companies don't produce such pedals while the amps themselves are still in production. I doubt any third party besides the likes of Behringer (whose products I refuse to buy) would do it as Fender would almost certainly throw lawyers at them. And I doubt there are *that* many people who'd buy one while the amps are available at reasonable prices. Some, but not enough (I suspect) to make it worthwhile except by a small volume pedal maker.
Gee, I dunno. But, like most corporations, 7ender is notoriously secretive about their marketing plans, strategies, reasoning, etc. Like, whoa! ... y'know, what's that aboot, eh?
Just FYI, here's where someone else was looking for a Rumble DI with all the settings. 
Yes, well, that kind of rationalization can be made about anything, really. Why doesn't Oreo make a persimmon jam filling? OooOooo! Persimmon Double Stuf!!! Naw, it would cut into sales of their regular Oreos & regular Double Stuf, ... and Thins, ... and Lemon flavored, ... and mint, and red velvet, and Birthday cake, and carrot, and peanut butter, and cinnamon bun, and ... so on and so forth.
Simsalabim! Your wish is their command! 
Too bad neither the Mustang Floor pedal, nor the Mustang amp head, caught on enough to continue. Maybe then we would have had Rumble pedals or Stage & Studio heads by now, too! Dang marketplace! Always ruining good ideas. 
