Fender Rumble v3 40 - First Impressions

[AstroSonic]

@AstroSonic another question. I can't figure how you modeled an F3 of 56hz with a tune of 57hz. As you see in the attached, I'm down 3dB at just over 60hz.

I also don't get the same port length as you for such a tune (my 3.17" vs your 2 5/8"). And double checking online, I get similar results (3.19" length for dual 2" ports). A difference in TS parameters might account for the tuning, but I doubt we'd be that far off (mine are attached). To get 2.625 long ports, I figure the tuning would be around 60.5.

Of course the final performance is what really matters, but I'm doing a little obsessing as I wait for my S2010 to come tomorrow. I have done much more speaker building than bass playing (just learning), so this is a natural area for me to tinker.

I appreciate the great info you have shared. I think the S2010 is a great replacement driver. Any insight to the points above would be helpful.

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I used software to ballpark suitable test alignments, tried them out and tested the tuning with rice. I can't guarantee that you would prefer the tuning I chose, though I have received positive feedback on it. The difference in port length and tuning most likely has to do with the end correction factor used by the software - hence, the need to rice test if you really want to know the tuning frequency. IME, the audible difference between a 56 and 60 Hz F3 is far less important than the overall response profile through the bass range. I have found that low tuning, maximally flat response and maximum bass extension (lowest F3) are poor indicators of bass tone. I encourage you to try 1) the 3.17", 2) the 2.56" and 3) 2" tuning. Also keep in mind that small differences in port length (or tuning frequency) will be virtually inaudible. You needn't worry about the difference between a 3.17" port length and a more easily measured 3 3/16" (3.1875") one. To choose alignments (tunings) to try (build and audition), use the software to arrive at alignments that have distinct response profiles, like EBS, maximally flat and slightly peaked. Then try them out. Choose the one you like. If you really like it you are done. If you do like it but feel the need to get closer, add a tuning on each side of the one you like and pick the best.

 

[Aqualungs]

Great thread, and thank you for all the info. I just ordered the Rumble 40 and It’s being delivered today. I’m trying to decide between the Dayton audio and the Eminence BP102 for blues, funk, rock, punk.. I like that old 60s-70s vintage sound. This is for practice and will be used with a pa for basement jams until I can afford the 200.

Is this the right port? Would the BP102 need the same length?
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I’m going to see how I like the stock driver once it breaks in. Who knows I may not want to change anything, except some lining.

 

[AstroSonic]

Great thread, and thank you for all the info. I just ordered the Rumble 40 and It’s being delivered today. I’m trying to decide between the Dayton audio and the Eminence BP102 for blues, funk, rock, punk.. I like that old 60s-70s vintage sound. This is for practice and will be used with a pa for basement jams until I can afford the 200.

Is this the right port? Would the BP102 need the same length?
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I’m going to see how I like the stock driver once it breaks in. Who knows I may not want to change anything, except some lining.

You don't need the whole kit, just a length of tubing: Invalid Link Removed

The BP102 is a fine driver, but needs a larger cabinet to take advantage of its low bass capabilities. Also, the highs tank above 1.7 kHz. If you play a P and crank to tone control to maximum HF attenuation, this is not an issue. If you want some presence or aggressiveness in your tone, this driver won't satisfy.

The Dayton PA255-8 works well in the Rumble 40 cab, with the lower tuning (same as for the S2010)... if you like an old school tone with a rich but still articulate bass and highs to about 5.3 kHz, but without presence peaking. You can get add some presence or aggressiveness with light to moderate boosting of the upper mids and treble if needed. It's distinctly louder than the stock driver, but not as loud as the S2010.

The BP102 and PA255 will both add weight, bringing the total to around 25 pounds (up from 18 lbs).

 

[Aqualungs]

You don't need the whole kit, just a length of tubing: Invalid Link Removed

The BP102 is a fine driver, but needs a larger cabinet to take advantage of its low bass capabilities. Also, the highs tank above 1.7 kHz. If you play a P and crank to tone control to maximum HF attenuation, this is not an issue. If you want some presence or aggressiveness in your tone, this driver won't satisfy.

The Dayton PA255-8 works well in the Rumble 40 cab, with the lower tuning (same as for the S2010)... if you like an old school tone with a rich but still articulate bass and highs to about 5.3 kHz, but without presence peaking. You can get add some presence or aggressiveness with light to moderate boosting of the upper mids and treble if needed. It's distinctly louder than the stock driver, but not as loud as the S2010.

The BP102 and PA255 will both add weight, bringing the total to around 25 pounds (up from 18 lbs).

Nice! Thank you. 25 pounds is still pretty light. This will be more a practice/travel amp so I guess I won’t need the high volume. Just the thump.
I’m playing a Sterling Musicman active Bass.

4 - 7/16” for the ports correct?

 

[benrtd]

Driver and port tube showed up yesterday. I started with 3 1/8" ports. Best I can tell using the rice test, the tuning was between 50hz and 51hz.

Decided to follow the prescription from @AstroSonic. Dropped the ports down to 2 5/8". This raised the tuning to somewhere around 54-56hz. I had previously lined the rear, bottom and left side with 1 /4 inch foam mattress topper.

So far pleased with the results. Going to give driver a little time to break in before I test it's limits, but the increased sensitivity is apparent, and the overall sound is really nice. The Rumble 40 was already very impressive. Certainly enough to suit my home-use practice needs.

It would have taken an awful lot of sanding/rasping to get the port tubes to fit. I cut two narrowly angled slots in each port which let me squeeze them in from behind, as shown below.

 

[AstroSonic]

Nice! Thank you. 25 pounds is still pretty light. This will be more a practice/travel amp so I guess I won’t need the high volume. Just the thump.
I’m playing a Sterling Musicman active Bass.

4 - 7/16” for the ports correct?

Correct. Try it that way and make sure you allow the driver to break in before deciding about the merits of the tone. If you need more thump, take an inch off the port length and listen. If its close but needs more, take another 1/2 inch off and listen. Keep in mind that as you gain thump, you lose some note definition. I found the note definition insufficient at 2 5/8 inches (Fb=56 Hz), but that's just my tonal preference. The tuning (port length) for the tone that YOU like is the correct one.

Don't forget to try adding some acoustic damping material to smooth out the mids. There is no 'correct' amount. First try it stock (no damping). Then try about 50% coverage of one side, the bottom and behind the driver. If it sounds too polite, take out a little (especially behind the driver). If it needs more, add a little more (again, especially behind the driver).

 

[LennyJ]

AstroSonic, now I am going to work on my Rumble 200 with the 15. Have you any ideas here. I thought I saw some thoughts but now cannot find. I guess I will start with batting, tubes and maybe look at a 2515.

Let me know if yo have heard anything yet.

LennyJ

 

[AstroSonic]

AstroSonic, now I am going to work on my Rumble 200 with the 15. Have you any ideas here. I thought I saw some thoughts but now cannot find. I guess I will start with batting, tubes and maybe look at a 2515.

Let me know if yo have heard anything yet.

LennyJ

In 2.5 - 3 cf I really like the Deltalite II 2512 with Fb of 50 - 45 Hz. In 2 - 2.5 cf, the Basslite 2012 with Fb of 60 - 55 Hz. Both are nice and smooth, with good upper mids presence. The 2512 has a somewhat deeper reach, while the 2012 has a little more punch. I'm sure that you could stuff a 15 in there, as Fender does, but I prefer the sound of those two 12's. If I were to try a 15 it would be the BP1525... sealed. Since I already have 2012 and 2512 cabs, that is what I would try. Good upper mids presence, plenty of Xmax and that sealed cab bass tone. Honestly, a 3015 would do quite well, but I don't see and advantage in that combo, unless you use the combo as a 115 cab with an external 500w head.

 

[LennyJ]

Thanks for the info - I was running my 40 with the mods with the jumper and using a Genzler 350 and the 40 cabinet - but that made 3 things to carry and in my old age I am lazy. With pa support as I have the 200 has better stage volume and I need that and it makes only 2 things to carry.

For the deeper side I may try the 2515. How about the tubes any specific thoughts.

Thanks for your ideas - it was a real help on the 40.

LEnnyJ

 

[AstroSonic]

Thanks for the info - I was running my 40 with the mods with the jumper and using a Genzler 350 and the 40 cabinet - but that made 3 things to carry and in my old age I am lazy. With pa support as I have the 200 has better stage volume and I need that and it makes only 2 things to carry.

For the deeper side I may try the 2515. How about the tubes any specific thoughts.

Thanks for your ideas - it was a real help on the 40.

LEnnyJ

If you give me the internal volume of the Rumble 200 cab and any porting dimensions I can see what you have stock. This could be a 'plug-n-play' with the 2512 (assume you meant the 2512 and not the 2515 for deeper tone), or you may have to do a little port modding. The 2515 has a significant volume advantage in the 80-400 Hz range (like doubling your amplifier power), with an F3 8 Hz higher than the 2512 (52 vs 60 Hz). It also does not have as much upper mids presence. Decisions, decisions.

 

[abath07]

I'm a keyboard player using a Rumble 40 for left hand keyboard bass on a jazz organ and I also play a Fender Rhodes electric piano. I also augment the Rumble 40 with a warm clear Fender Champ 5 watt tube amp with 8" Weber speaker. But The Champ has almost no lows. When I tried a Rumble 40 at G.C. I was blown away by how good it sounded with an organ keyboard.

I want to mod the Rumble 40 to get better clarity and smoother mids and highs. I am also interested in port tubes. Is the best way to go for me Baslite S2010, 2 5/8 ports and foam one bottom rear and sides?

 

[AstroSonic]

The stock Rumble 40 driver has nice mids and highs, but they are well down in level from the bass. It's strongly peaked in the mid bass and doesn't have much low bass.

To upgrade, you have a couple of good options.

The S2010 has much smoother and deeper bass, smooth mids and upper mids presence (kind of like the Fender, but more so).

The Eminence Legend B102 is a dual cone design so it has relatively extended highs, decent bass and is smooth throughout the range. However it has lower sensitivity and will be a little less loud than the stock driver, or the other drivers mentioned in this post. This will add about 7 pounds to the combo for a total of about 25 pounds.

The Faital 10FE200 is smooth through the bass (actually mildly peaked), through the mids and into the highs, where it also has remarkable dispersion (for a 10 inch). You'll probably need a little bass boost. If you play 'clean' (low distortion), and not in overly hot environments, you can get by with the 4 ohm version (allows more amplifier power). It will get obviously louder than the all the other options mentioned in this post, but the amp is only rated by Fender for an 8 ohm load. I've had no problem doing this and the amp seems to run at about the same temp as with an 8 ohm load, but I only use it for 'clean' sound. I play it loud, but clean, so it is never really pushed. If you can live within that limitation this is a good option. Otherwise, there is an 8 ohm version that sounds very similar.

For a little more money and weight, the Eminence Legend CA1059-8 seems almost ideally designed for keyboard, and is quite sensitive, so will get louder than even the Faital 4 ohm driver. It will add a good 8 pounds to the combo (so about 26 pounds total).

Decisions, decisions...

 

[abath07]

I want to stick with light weight as possible, so it's either:

a) Stock speaker, 2 5/8 ports, and Polyester Fiber Stuffing.
or
b) 2010 speaker, 2 5/8 ports, and Polyester Fiber Stuffing.

Given I play Fender Rhodes electric piano and jazz organ, which gives me a better outcome? I think your previous post has me leaning towards the 2010 with it's smoother mids and upper mids

 

[AstroSonic]

Of the two, the S2010 will best meet your stated needs: 'better clarity and smoother mids and highs'. You will also get smoother deeper bass with better note definition, higher max clean volume and no fart out. Acoustic damping on the back, bottom and one side. And, yes, retune with 2 5/8 inch long ports.

 

[abath07]

Thanks AstroSonic,

Do you cut the port tube with a hacksaw? And do you recommend Acousta-fill with a spray adhesive? I think Acousta-fill baffle doesn't come in sheets. It's a clumpy texture like pillow stuffing? I think it must be kept away from the driver, the ports and the amp heat.

 

[AstroSonic]

Lumpy, fibrous tangles should be teased out a little, then wood-stapled onto the interior walls. I usually use acoustastuff from Parts Express, but dacron (available at most sewing stores, and department stores) works more than adequately.

A hacksaw is fine for cutting the port tubing. You can also use a bandsaw or table saw - just be careful.

 

[VolverseLoco]

I have to say, I have been reading all through this thread and I went and bought the Eminence S2010 and put it in last night and wow, seriously, what a difference. Just look at the S2010 and the stock one, the Eminence is just better built. The sound at low volumes is fantastic. Some guys say, oh, its just a practice amp, your wasting your money. Phooey! I know its just a practice amp, and that's all I need in my music room at home. I don't have no problem spending the $99 for the speaker. I got the new, longer port tubes coming today so I will put them in there and play around with them versus blocking one off.

 

[abath07]

I just had a thought, as a keyboard player the low C bass note on my organ keyboard is 32.703 . It's like one fret higher than the Low B (30.868) on a 5 string bass. Do I still want my Rumble 40 port tube mods to be 2 5/8" or should I consider another length?

 

[abath07]

Update, I think I get that we are trying to tune the driver to the cabinet ( wave form and air motion) and not to any particular note frequency on our instrument whether it's a 4 string bass, a 5 string bass , or an organ keyboard (low C 30.868).

 

[AstroSonic]

Update, I think I get that we are trying to tune the driver to the cabinet ( wave form and air motion) and not to any particular note frequency on our instrument whether it's a 4 string bass, a 5 string bass , or an organ keyboard (low C 30.868).

That's right. The cab size and choice of driver are a compromise. You can have two of the three: deep bass, high efficiency or a small cabinet. There are technical reasons for this (Hoffmans Iron Law). To get 30 hz at full strength (the same sound level as at 400 Hz), would require a very large cabinet or very low efficiency. The Rumble 40 cab size is fixed, so we could choose between usable bass to around 50 Hz and relatively high efficiency, or usable bass to 30 Hz and very low efficiency. Given the human ear's ability to 'hear' the fundamental of deep bass tones when the sound is mostly 2nd and 3rd harmonics, the choice was a cab and driver with usable efficiency.