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Finally, an electric car worth buying?

rob2966

rob2966

Oct 19, 2006
874
235
Vancouver, BC
#1
Been seeing more and more of the Tesla Model S around town. It is a great looking car with amazing space, stunning performance, and very useable range.

I hope they do well with it, I like to see people who put in the investment to push technology forward get rewarded. Lots of cool YouTube videos on it (out dragging a Viper, things like that) but the Nat Geographic Megafactories episode really shows the level of design and investment behind this car.



Now, which mattress did I leave that $100,000 under?

Later
Rob
 
#2
Actually the S model sells for ~ $52K. Tesla Corp would be wise to make a smaller model that the average Joe can afford. Like $25K or $26K.

The video was nice. But a couple of unanswered questions;

What is the expected service life (# of charge/discharge cycles) of the battery?

How much is a replacement battery?
 
#4
Some will balk at the price, but if there are enough early adopter / believers out there to sustain TESLA's formative years of mass-production, the price will hopefully come down a tad, somewhat proportionate to the furthering improvements in the tech. At least the range should continue to improve as the battery tech improves.

That's when the "everyman" starts to feel the urge to hop onboard, and then the paradigm really shifts.
 
#5
Meh. It is still not yet ready for prime time. Still way short range. Who wants to buy a $100K car that won't get you across a state? That's utterly ridiculous. Also, the battery technology still isn't much different than a bunch of AA batteries all stuck together in a series parallel circuit. Nothing rocket science about that. And pretty much what happens is that cells die off one by one until the whole package can't put out enough current to get the incredibly heavy things to go forward. All the ratings that you read are done without running headlights, air conditioning, radio, or any other creature comforts. Until they come up with a power source that isn't much different from AAs duct taped together, electric cars will still be ultra expensive, and very short range. And lest we forget that some of the gas savings you get will be eaten up by the new taxes that most states are charging hybrid and electric car owners due to lost revenue from gas taxes. There has to be a better way to "save the world". Electric cars aren't it, by a long shot.
 
#6
two fingers said:
Meh. It is still not yet ready for prime time. Still way short range. Who wants to buy a $100K car that won't get you across a state? That's utterly ridiculous. Also, the battery technology still isn't much different than a bunch of AA batteries all stuck together in a series parallel circuit. Nothing rocket science about that. And pretty much what happens is that cells die off one by one until the whole package can't put out enough current to get the incredibly heavy things to go forward. All the ratings that you read are done without running headlights, air conditioning, radio, or any other creature comforts. Until they come up with a power source that isn't much different from AAs duct taped together, electric cars will still be ultra expensive, and very short range. And lest we forget that some of the gas savings you get will be eaten up by the new taxes that most states are charging hybrid and electric car owners due to lost revenue from gas taxes. There has to be a better way to "save the world". Electric cars aren't it, by a long shot.
Click to expand...

what states are those? all electric vehicle owners get 1000s in tax breaks
 
#7
Well, here in my state (NC) they are working on it now if it hasn't already passed. I'm not talking about the Federal government. I think Colorado already did it and several others as well. But most states are working on a bill to charge hybrid and electric car owners a "road usage fee" of some sort. They claim that the lost revenue from gas taxes is hurting road construction or some such nonsense.

Couple of news hits from Google.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Invalid Link Removed
 
#9
When will someone make an electric car that actually serves the market that needs it? The Tesla S is a full size sedan and that means it's an oversized behemoth that severely limits its range.

What is needed is a supercompact 1 seater commuter vehicle that weighs under 1400 lbs. This would make possible a greater range at a price under $40,000. If someone made this they would sell in numbers more like a "real" car.
 
#10
hbarcat said:
When will someone make an electric car that actually serves the market that needs it? The Tesla S is a full size sedan and that means it's an oversized behemoth that severely limits its range.

What is needed is a supercompact 1 seater commuter vehicle that weighs under 1400 lbs. This would make possible a greater range at a price under $40,000. If someone made this they would sell in numbers more like a "real" car.
Click to expand...

Right now the bottle neck is the FACT that we don't have battery technology yet that will a) produce enough current and b) doesn't weight a ton (almost literally). Until such time, building a tiny car won't be practical because to get any kind of range out of it you would still have to have huge, heavy batteries that the frame of a tiny car won't support. And if you went with smaller battery packs, you would have to give up your increased range, so why bother? Simply put, battery technology that lasts, produces a lot of current, doesn't fail constantly, and isn't half the price of a car to replace does not exist.

My thought for now would be the opposite. Put a lightweight body on a heavy SUV frame. Then you could put more battery pack in it to go further stronger. Also, you could just sacrifice some of the cargo area to house the battery so that it was easy access to change out should the need arise. You could even sell a system whereby you could have two batteries that come with the car and a system to change them out. That would allow you to keep a spare charged up at all times and also extend the life of both by swapping them out a lot. Also, if they came up with an easy access swap out system, and a standard battery size and rating, we could literally build swap stations so that you can just pull up and get a new battery for a fee (kind of like gas grill swap out works). I would think something about the size of a Ford Escape would be a great platform for this.
 
#11
hbarcat said:
When will someone make an electric car that actually serves the market that needs it?
Click to expand...

We're seeing more electric cars on the road in European cities. The cars we see are for urban commuting. Recognizing that many commuters rarely have more than two occupants, Renault has the Twizy. It takes up hardly any space. Parking lots and garages are slowly offering charging stations.

Invalid Link Removed
 
#12
hbarcat said:
When will someone make an electric car that actually serves the market that needs it? The Tesla S is a full size sedan and that means it's an oversized behemoth that severely limits its range.

What is needed is a supercompact 1 seater commuter vehicle that weighs under 1400 lbs. This would make possible a greater range at a price under $40,000. If someone made this they would sell in numbers more like a "real" car.
Click to expand...

Elon Musk (owner of Tesla and a modern day Tesla) said his business plan boils down to high price low volume (the roadster), then too medium price medium volume (the Model S), then high volume low price; which is still coming in the future. It seems to be working out well for him, as they are turning a profit and they paid off a $700 million loan from the government 7 years early.

lowsound
 
#14
two fingers said:
Right now the bottle neck is the FACT that we don't have battery technology yet that will a) produce enough current and b) doesn't weight a ton (almost literally). Until such time, building a tiny car won't be practical because to get any kind of range out of it you would still have to have huge, heavy batteries that the frame of a tiny car won't support. And if you went with smaller battery packs, you would have to give up your increased range, so why bother? Simply put, battery technology that lasts, produces a lot of current, doesn't fail constantly, and isn't half the price of a car to replace does not exist.
Click to expand...

The physics of reduced size comes to the rescue here. A car that weighs 1/3 as much will need 1/3 the power to make it go and a car that has 1/3 the air resistence will need 1/3 the power to keep it going. This directly translates to a battery that is 1/3 the size and cost.

You could place 200 lbs of batteries on a typical large motorcycle and replace the engine with an electric motor and have yourself a vehicle that will have a tremendous range and only weigh 500 lbs. This is a market that isn't being served and it's too bad.
 
#15
hbarcat said:
You could place 200 lbs of batteries on a typical large motorcycle and replace the engine with an electric motor and have yourself a vehicle that will have a tremendous range and only weigh 500 lbs. This is a market that isn't being served and it's too bad.
Click to expand...

The problem with that idea is that most bike owners want a noisy bike. They can make bikes as quiet as cars, but there's no market.
 
#16
OMG OMG! It's not for everyone. DEATH TO THE EVIL ELECTRIC CAR!
:hiding:

I'd rock a Tesla in a hot New York minute. High performance, comfortable, and great efficiency.
 
#17
No Telsa here, but I just got a LEAF and I'm very happy with it. Affordable, super-quiet and a nice overall car, and really good acceleration when you need it. I commute 40 miles round-trip each day, and it's perfect for that.

We're also putting (leasing) solar panels on our roof, which should take care of almost 90% of our electrical power needs, including the car.
 
#19
hbarcat said:
The physics of reduced size comes to the rescue here. A car that weighs 1/3 as much will need 1/3 the power to make it go and a car that has 1/3 the air resistence will need 1/3 the power to keep it going. This directly translates to a battery that is 1/3 the size and cost.

You could place 200 lbs of batteries on a typical large motorcycle and replace the engine with an electric motor and have yourself a vehicle that will have a tremendous range and only weigh 500 lbs. This is a market that isn't being served and it's too bad.
Click to expand...

The question posed was about size, cost, AND RANGE. So, if you reduce the size and cost of the battery, you will gain no range. So, no, your "solution" doesn't fit all of the requirements listed in the question. Sure, it would cost less and be smaller, but it wouldn't go any further than the big ones.
 
#20
I guess I only see an electric car as an earth saver when the electricity produced to charge it is solar, nuclear or hydropower, otherwise it just seems like a shifting of the overall fossil fuel issue and I'm ignoring the issue of spent fuel rods, end of life battery recycling, etc which really can't be ignored. Everything seems to have it's evil component. That said I'm always one for finding a better mousetrap.

As was brought up previously, when gas tax revenues go down other taxes or ways to subsidize the lost $$ will be found....from within our pockets.
 

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