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Finally! New Peavey bass heads, and MINI!

#141
synterx said:
I really wish they included the tuner on the mega. Once ou get used to having one built in, it's hard to go back.
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I guess I can see that. I was expecting to see a tuner on there, and I figured many might want it. My view was a little different. I'm not sure how much I would use a tuner on my amp head. The TC Electronic heads have one on there, don't they?

For me... once I get my levels set, I very rarely look at my amp. I have a TC Electronic PolyTune on my pedal board and a cheapo NS Mini Tuner on each headstock. The NS Minis are so cheap, I just leave them on a few basses (they work great, btw). The PolyTune is really a neat device, and it's great to have a mute switch at your feet anyway.

So that's just me, but I was kinda glad that the front of the unit was kept simple and the tuner was left off. Again, I expected to see one because the Max series amps have them.

--Steve

P.S. You can buy a pair of the new NS Mini tuners for $25. I love these little things. During gigs, I am very dependent on my pedal tuner.

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#142
I hate tuners on my amp. I want my amp to be an amp, not a tuner. Besides, some of us are picky about what we want in a tuner.

Also the more junk you pack into a thing like this the cheaper and cheaper it starts to look. The 'sub harmonic' generator is already on the edge of too gimmicky.
 
#145
synterx said:
4 little LEDs as on the tc wouldn't hurt a thing. And we're entitled to our own opinion. I just happen to be a minimalist, and the less stuff I need to bring and hook up the better. I could do without the kosmos stuff myself.
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In my mind a headphone jack on the face alone says 'bedroom practice amp'.

The KOSMOS subharmonic is gimmicky, the DSP part of it is actually a very useable thing for live players with small or low-end limited cabs. Its the Peavey version of this: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I have a 103 unit, and it does exactly what it says...
 
#146
Stev187 said:
P.S. You can buy a pair of the new NS Mini tuners for $25. I love these little things. During gigs, I am very dependent on my pedal tuner.

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Thanks for this heads up! I just ordered myself a Twin Pack! And at this price, they are even less expensive than the Korg PitchJack tuners I have several of!
 
#147
synterx said:
4 little LEDs as on the tc wouldn't hurt a thing. And we're entitled to our own opinion. I just happen to be a minimalist, and the less stuff I need to bring and hook up the better. I could do without the kosmos stuff myself.
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Agreed! Like I said, I can see why people would want the tuner.

I'm also inclined to agree about the Kosmos thing, though I am curious to try it. I've never really used any effects built into an amp. My beloved MegaBass has a very nice chorus built in, but I rarely use it. That one made sense to me--this head dates back to when there were not many good effects designed for bass. Also, the original Mega was a bi-amp head, and the chorus only affects the "top" or "high" amp. This is great if you are bi-amping: chorus effect without low-end mud.

From Peavey's point of view, I can understand adding the Kosmos to this head. It's a technology that they are proud of and I'm sure a bunch of R&D was spent developing it. I'll be interested in trying it. If I like it, it might change the way I DI to the board (right now I send my signal to the PA before my amp). In fact, if I like the compressor on the MiniMega, I may end up retooling my entire signal chain.

So, I've got an open mind about the Kosmos. Could be cool. And if we don't like it, we don't have to use it, right? Here's a clip of Bobby doing a demo of sub-harmonic feature on the Max combos back at NAMM 2012:

http://youtu.be/dUq5vBbO7Rk

Worth trying it on a gig--I am intrigued.

--Steve
 
#148
Stev187 said:
Agreed! Like I said, I can see why people would want the tuner.

I'm also inclined to agree about the Kosmos thing, though I am curious to try it. I've never really used any effects built into an amp. My beloved MegaBass has a very nice chorus built in, but I rarely use it. That one made sense to me--this head dates back to when there were not many good effects designed for bass. Also, the original Mega was a bi-amp head, and the chorus only affects the "top" or "high" amp. This is great if you are bi-amping: chorus effect without low-end mud.

From Peavey's point of view, I can understand adding the Kosmos to this head. It's a technology that they are proud of and I'm sure a bunch of R&D was spent developing it. I'll be interested in trying it. If I like it, it might change the way I DI to the board (right now I send my signal to the PA before my amp). In fact, if I like the compressor on the MiniMega, I may end up retooling my entire signal chain.

So, I've got an open mind about the Kosmos. Could be cool. And if we don't like it, we don't have to use it, right? Here's a clip of Bobby doing a demo of sub-harmonic feature on the Max combos back at NAMM 2012:

http://youtu.be/dUq5vBbO7Rk

Worth trying it on a gig--I am intrigued.

--Steve
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The KOSMOS is actually TWO different things. One is a subharmonic generator. That is an 'effect'. I find them pretty useless for pretty much anything.

The second one is actually DSP. Its not an effect, what it does is works with the upper harmonics of a note and pulls out the deep lows, what that does is fool your ears into believing you've got low end content (beyond what your speakers can provide) without causing over excursion or hitting the 'roll off' limit of your speakers. When its on, you don't notice its on, except if you have speakers that are anemic in the lows, it seems like you've gained them back.

I use one on my powered monitors for my computer/mixing station because I don't have the space/situation for a dedicated sub. You wouldn't know that we don't have one. This will be a handy feature for people who carry compact speaker cabs that roll off fairly high. It will make your little speakers sound like big speakers (not in volume, but in tone). It also helps because your speakers are not actually seeing deep lows, so they won't run into their excursion limits so quickly or easily.
 
#149
As for the subharmonic generator...Peavey developed Kosmos around 2001. Since then, Peavey has used "Kosmos" as a marketing word on a few products, for example, the Tour 450/700 bass heads. It was called "Kosmos B" on those amps, unless you have an early one, where it was just called "octaver". In that case, it was actually just an octave divider effect. Peavey has also used "Kosmos C" on some of the mixer products, and in that case, it was sort of a low frequency compression booster.

The subharmonic generator in the Mini Mega is labeled "Kosmos A" because it's actually Kosmos. The main difference between Kosmos and an octave effect is that the dynamics of the sub synth tone track the dynamics of the input signal. The dynamics tracking is patented. A recent addition to Kosmos is low frequency damping, which keeps the synthesized tones in control. This function on the Mega is not really meant to be an octaver effect, rather it's a way to add massive, but tight low end provided that you have a cabinet that can handle it. In other words, companies, including Peavey have incorporated stuff like this in heads before, but this is actually usable. It is 100% analog.

The Max II combos have the "psycho-acoustic" button, which actually works by manipulating upper harmonics and generating extra harmonics. There is no way to set the level on the Max II amps. The processing is pre set based on the internal speaker, so you just turn it on or off. The psycho harmonics processor is also 100% analog. The "psycho" function on the Mega is called "Kosmos C". The processor is the same as the Max II combos, but the level is adjustable. Some of the newer mixer products also use my Max II processor and it's labeled as "Kosmos C" even though Kosmos C has meant something else on past products. Anyway, this processor can be used to make smaller cabinets sound larger, but it can also just be used as a tone thickener similar to the way an overdriven tube amp sounds more full because of the extra harmonic content, but different in that the signal is not clipped and compressed. The dynamics of the upper harmonics track playing dynamics, and latency is extremely low because the circuit is not only analog, it's discrete. Low latency is extremely important for this type of processing.
 
#150
Most intriguing...

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#151
Thanks for the clarification. I have feeling that until people hear what the "C" does, its sort of hard to understand. With speakers that DO have capabilities down low, its not necessarily needed, but once you get to speakers that don't have the deep reach, or do but you want to 'fool' into getting a bit more headroom, it's a really nice thing.
 
#152
Most intriguing...
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The Headliner 1000 uses the same power section as the Mini Mega. Actually, the two heads share a lot of functionality. The Headliner will be for those who want a traditional rack head format with the classic "blank slate" Peavey voicing. The Mega has a little bit of baked in voicing.

Thanks for the clarification. I have feeling that until people hear what the "C" does, its sort of hard to understand. With speakers that DO have capabilities down low, its not necessarily needed, but once you get to speakers that don't have the deep reach, or do but you want to 'fool' into getting a bit more headroom, it's a really nice thing.
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One of the best ways to hear the "C", and this is also a demo I did a lot at NAMM, you can play with a bridge tone but make just the bottom low end portion sound like a neck tone by adding in some of the harmonics that are missing while keeping the harmonics that make the tone a bridge tone. A bass sounds different depending on where you attack the strings because of different harmonic content.

One thing that's interesting about bass guitar is that bass players have been using, and sometimes relying on (810 users), psycho-acoustics for years. Many of us know that the 2nd harmonic is extremely important. One thing that's interesting is to examine the harmonic content of different wave shapes (additive synthesis). I know lots of TBers have been interested in Maxxbass by Waves. The tricky part to manipulating bass guitar harmonics is doing it in such a way that you don't lose or replace certain natural harmonic content because that's helping! Maxxbass is all DSP. Some of it works for bass guitar and some doesn't. The shape of the wave may be changed by using some of what's already there instead of replacing it.
 
#156
The Mini Max has a neutral voicing, but the extreme lows are filtered a little to maximize headroom.

Burning, I'm not exactly sure what Waves is doing. There are different types of Maxxbass. The type in the IPR requires a full blown DSP system, but there are other chipset versions. Basically, marketing wanted it in the Max II combos, but I tested it and decided to do my own thing. The reason is that some versions of Maxxbass seem to replace the natural harmonics, so what you end up with sounds the same, but slightly artificial. I demonstrated mine vs theirs and mine was chosen for the bass amps, and now it's used elsewhere. If I were working on a digital preamp, I would certainly give Waves another look. When I first found out about Maxxbass, it was when we were looking at it for the IPR DSP amps a few years back. At the time, I thought, hey, us bass players have known about harmonics for years!
 
#157
BbbyBld said:
The Mini Max has a neutral voicing, but the extreme lows are filtered a little to maximize headroom.

Burning, I'm not exactly sure what Waves is doing. There are different types of Maxxbass. The type in the IPR requires a full blown DSP system, but there are other chipset versions. Basically, marketing wanted it in the Max II combos, but I tested it and decided to do my own thing. The reason is that some versions of Maxxbass seem to replace the natural harmonics, so what you end up with sounds the same, but slightly artificial. I demonstrated mine vs theirs and mine was chosen for the bass amps, and now it's used elsewhere. If I were working on a digital preamp, I would certainly give Waves another look. When I first found out about Maxxbass, it was when we were looking at it for the IPR DSP amps a few years back. At the time, I thought, hey, us bass players have known about harmonics for years!
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The application of this type of technology seems particularly attractive right now as people migrate to smaller form-factor rigs, where the engineering doesn't allow for true deep bass. It also would certainly be a factor in situations where low x-max speakers can't provide the excursion for deep lows.

In the new world of 'micro rigs' this would seem like an idea to trade upon heavily. I also believe that the 'plug in' version of what waves does (and other companies that do similar, I haven't looked very far) is probably very prevalent in the recording field as you can now maintain reasonable control of the mix no matter what the speakers (at least theoretically it takes out some of the 'chance').

I'm interested in your thoughts that it in some ways acts as 'tube simulation' as well.
 
#159
I also believe that the 'plug in' version of what waves does (and other companies that do similar, I haven't looked very far) is probably very prevalent in the recording field as you can now maintain reasonable control of the mix no matter what the speakers (at least theoretically it takes out some of the 'chance').
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I think you are right. I think it or something like it is used on the newer Deftones Koi No Yokan album. The lows on that album seem to sound incredible regardless of speaker capability. My smartphone has Beats audio processing, and it seems to do something similar.

I'm interested in your thoughts that it in some ways acts as 'tube simulation' as well.
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Only in that they both sound thicker due to extra harmonic content. It ends there.
 
#160
Peavey has some new pictures on their Facebook site.

Here's another shot of the bass section, with the Mini Max on the two 12" stack and the Mini Mega on the new 1516.

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and another pretty good shot of the Mini Mega and 1516 on the left:

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and a closeup of the Mini Mega itself:

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