First Cigarette....

[aborgman]

Interesting, but I bet tests like those can be beat.

ANY test can be gamed. Including breathalyzers and street sobriety tests.

I know some pretty focused potheads who would excell at those games but still couldn't be trusted with hurling a two ton metal casket down the street at 110kph while stoned.

I'd disagree - generally, if you are un-impaired enough to complete these tasks, you're un-impaired enough to drive... at least that is how the numerous trucking companies using these sorts of functional impairment tests are rolling.

There's has to be a balance between one man's freedom to drown himself in drink and another man's right to be free from the potential danger of the first man's inebriation. I think that most rational people would be happy to cope with a tiny bit of restiction when it comes to where you can be and what you can do while drunk or high if the boons of the ristrictions are safety and peace of mind for everyone.

You're making the assumption that evidence exists to support a .08 BAC limit as impaired. It really doesn't. Especially not when you compare it to the .10 BAC limit it has replaced in most places.

Generally, lowering the BAC limit from .1 to .08 has done nothing to reduce drunk driving injuries/deaths. It has increased government revenue from DUI fines.

A mind altering chemical in your brain is cause enough for you to be taken off the road.

Really?

1 drink - off the road.
1 cup of coffee - off the road.
1 aspirin - off the road.

I think you're forgetting just how many "mind altering" chemicals we regularly use.

Opioid pain killers
Nicotine, amphetamines, cocaine, caffeine
NSAID's
Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Cymbalta, Effexor, Wellbutrin
Risperdal, Abilify
Neurontin, Topamax, Lithium
Xanax, Ativan, Librium

 

[tZer]

...But if you love it like many do, find the power to control and MODERATE your smoking. Then you will find ZEN

Nope - you'll "find Zen" when you lose the need to do things like smoke.

Moderation is a good policy however, so I don't want to detract from your point. I too believe in moderation even if I don't think smoking is a good idea.

After reading this thread - and especially ZachOrem's posts - I've come to the conclusion that rationalization is far worse for your health than smoking.

 

[Thunderscreech]

Interesting, but I bet tests like those can be beat. I know some pretty focused potheads who would excell at those games but still couldn't be trusted with hurling a two ton metal casket down the street at 110kph while stoned.

Driving stoned isn't like driving drunk. Not to mention, it varies from person to person. But the "Influence" in D.U.I is there... and it's still not as fun, because half of your mind has to be focused on the road.

 

[ZachOrem]

I've come to the conclusion that rationalization is far worse for your health than smoking.

You're probably right about that.

 

[Bigjohn]

Yeah, I AM saying 0.08 is an encroachment on my freedom because 0.08 doesn't endanger anyone. It's way too low. A person can have 1 or 2 beers and blow in excess of 0.08. It's a money making scam for government and back door prohibition.
And no, I am NOT saying I or anyone else has the right to endanger the safety of other road users by driving while impaired by alcohol.
The danger is drunk drivers, not drivers who blow 0.08.
It's not a subtle distinction: 0.08 != Drunk Driving. Not even close.
How many times have you heard news of traffic fatalities and what are the blood alcohol levels? Waaaay higher than 0.08.
Look, I'm very careful and don't even drive buzzed. I make certain my level is below the legal limit but nonetheless, 0.08 is an outright scam and an abuse of the law.

Are you seriously suggesting that DUI laws which set a .08 limit are an encroachment on your freedom? Do you really believe that you have a right to endanger the safety of other road users by driving while impaired by alcohol?

 

[Jim Campbell]

Yeah, I AM saying 0.08 is an encroachment on my freedom because 0.08 doesn't endanger anyone. It's way too low. A person can have 1 or 2 beers and blow in excess of 0.08. It's a money making scam for government and back door prohibition.
And no, I am NOT saying I or anyone else has the right to endanger the safety of other road users by driving while impaired by alcohol.
The danger is drunk drivers, not drivers who blow 0.08.
It's not a subtle distinction: 0.08 != Drunk Driving. Not even close.
How many times have you heard news of traffic fatalities and what are the blood alcohol levels? Waaaay higher than 0.08.
Look, I'm very careful and don't even drive buzzed. I make certain my level is below the legal limit but nonetheless, 0.08 is an outright scam and an abuse of the law.

actually i believe you're right..........here the tendency is to set up check stops go after some joe schmoe sneaking home a beer or two over the limit,and then the revenue starts.....towing and impound fees,aa school,surcharges on driver license and registrations that last for years,and of course fines and court costs.....the working guy will pay if he wants to keep his job and his house/family intact .....and temporary 24 hour suspensions can be issued here at .05

conversely youth car thieves,who actually go out street racing in stolen cars,have no licenses to suspend or surcharge,don't fear losing anything.....we pay for their lawyers when they get caught,and for cops to re arrest them when they re-offend often the same day they are released on a "promise to appear",with no bail conditions....we house them,feed them,with welfare on the street,and expensive group homes instead of jail,spend cubic dollars on social workers,parole and probation people.....there are 4 levels of car thieves here with the most chronic being level four,and one might ask why they are not locked up for long periods by the time they reach level 2.....

so it would seem that here anyway,that joe lunchbox with his friday after noon beer buzz is the true villain,and must be crushed
and we'll leave the gang banger/street racers in the stolen cars to the tender mercies of the social workers

 

[Bigjohn]

By defininition there's no money in going after a total derel. They might take away his license or they might not and even if they do, he'll drive anyways and not end up spending significant time in the slammer.
But the poor bastard with a job and a few bucks out for a couple beers? He's an ATM. That's your tax dollars at work.
Look, there's many menaces on the road. I make it a point to not drive over 0.08 (I watch my $$$) but what about tired driving - hmmm?
For you gigging bass players, how many times have you FOUGHT to stay awake driving home at 3:30am?
I know I have. No accidents yet but I have caught myself nodding. Very scary. I now keep dexedrine in my van for those nights.
Don't ask me how this relates to some dude who hates his life taking up smoking.

actually i believe you're right..........here the tendency is to set up check stops go after some joe schmoe sneaking home a beer or two over the limit,and then the revenue starts.....towing and impound fees,aa school,surcharges on driver license and registrations that last for years,and of course fines and court costs.....the working guy will pay if he wants to keep his job and his house/family intact .....and temporary 24 hour suspensions can be issued here at .05

conversely youth car thieves,who actually go out street racing in stolen cars,have no licenses to suspend or surcharge,don't fear losing anything.....we pay for their lawyers when they get caught,and for cops to re arrest them when they re-offend often the same day they are released on a "promise to appear",with no bail conditions....we house them,feed them,with welfare on the street,and expensive group homes instead of jail,spend cubic dollars on social workers,parole and probation people.....there are 4 levels of car thieves here with the most chronic being level four,and one might ask why they are not locked up for long periods by the time they reach level 2.....

so it would seem that here anyway,that joe lunchbox with his friday after noon beer buzz is the true villain,and must be crushed
and we'll leave the gang banger/street racers in the stolen cars to the tender mercies of the social workers

 

[rarbass]

So a guy who has never smoked in his life, has cancer, and is going to die in a month anyway - takes up smoking because of the pleasure the nicotine buzz gives him... and he is insane?

Now, I'll agree that smoking is unhealthy. So is drinking... and a million other things - but sometimes unhealthy choices aren't dumb, because the benefits outweigh the costs.

I'll also add that your average person doesn't do a good cost/benefit analysis when making any of their decisions.

Considering that smoking was likely to have played a role in his being diagnosed with cancer, then yes he'd be insane.
(consider why he'd want to suddenly take up smoking, perhaps he avoided it all his life knowing the effects were negative, but people all around him smoked. Perhaps he was given cancer by second-hand smoke)

I'm just playing the devil's advocate, but seriously I don't think anyone who starts smoking in this day and age is correct.

IMO, do what you want, it's not my life. But posting a thread about it just seems ridiculous to me...

 

[uethanian]

wow thread's gotten crazy

when got to college i started smoking maybe like 4-5 cigarettes a month. gonna be honest, whether it's cramming for that test the next morning or dealing with drama (happens when you're in a dorm), a cigarette really calms me down and gets me centered. but to me a cigarette is like that midnight cup of coffee, it's ok once in a while but it shouldn't become a habit. so while i'll smoke a couple cigs a month, i have no desire to become 'a smoker.' just my personal perspective, all things in moderation.

 

[Kwesi]

I gotta say ZachOrem, you have brought some seriously thought provoking ideas to the table. You've made me completely reevaluate my position on smoking (no joke here). Glad you joined the discussion and managed to keep a cool head amongst the attacks.

 

[Simo98]

Yeah, I AM saying 0.08 is an encroachment on my freedom because 0.08 doesn't endanger anyone. It's way too low. A person can have 1 or 2 beers and blow in excess of 0.08. It's a money making scam for government and back door prohibition.

0.08 here is loss of license, 0.05 is a fine.

I have no idea how the thread came to be about drink driving, but figured its worth mentioning.

 

[Evil Undead]

Easy to start, hard to quit.
It's all fun and games 'til someone loses a lung.
They are expensive and only going to go up.
Makes your clothes stink.
Gives you one more thing you have to do.
All that being said, I would start smoking again today if I didn't think it would kill me. (and I wasn't a cheap bastard)

I'm with this guy. I loved smoking. But the things above, plus they made me feel pants, forced me to quit almost 2 years ago.

But yeah, if it weren't for the cost and the health implications, I would start again today.

 

[Jonyak]

actually i believe you're right..........here the tendency is to set up check stops go after some joe schmoe sneaking home a beer or two over the limit,and then the revenue starts.....towing and impound fees,aa school,surcharges on driver license and registrations that last for years,and of course fines and court costs.....the working guy will pay if he wants to keep his job and his house/family intact .....and temporary 24 hour suspensions can be issued here at .05

conversely youth car thieves,who actually go out street racing in stolen cars,have no licenses to suspend or surcharge,don't fear losing anything.....we pay for their lawyers when they get caught,and for cops to re arrest them when they re-offend often the same day they are released on a "promise to appear",with no bail conditions....we house them,feed them,with welfare on the street,and expensive group homes instead of jail,spend cubic dollars on social workers,parole and probation people.....there are 4 levels of car thieves here with the most chronic being level four,and one might ask why they are not locked up for long periods by the time they reach level 2.....

so it would seem that here anyway,that joe lunchbox with his friday after noon beer buzz is the true villain,and must be crushed
and we'll leave the gang banger/street racers in the stolen cars to the tender mercies of the social workers

For once I actualy somewhat agree with you.

I really get upset when I see cops setting up speed traps to catch a guy going 10 kmh over the speed limit on his way home, when they won't even respond to theft calls.

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

For you gigging bass players, how many times have you FOUGHT to stay awake driving home at 3:30am?
I know I have. No accidents yet but I have caught myself nodding. Very scary. I now keep dexedrine in my van for those nights.

You know what helps me stay awake on those nights?


Cigarettes.

 

[sloasdaylight]

For you gigging bass players, how many times have you FOUGHT to stay awake driving home at 3:30am?
I know I have. No accidents yet but I have caught myself nodding. Very scary. I now keep dexedrine in my van for those nights.
Don't ask me how this relates to some dude who hates his life taking up smoking.

I've done this.
Late show (started at 10:30, got off at 2:30) loaded up, cashed out and on the road about 3:15, with an hour drive back to my place. I slammed a coke and a redbull before I left, courtesy of the bar, which was desperately needed cause I nearly fell asleep before the last set, but that stuff started to wear off with about 20 minutes till I got to my house. That **** sucks so bad.

 

[Jim Campbell]

For once I actualy somewhat agree with you.

I really get upset when I see cops setting up speed traps to catch a guy going 10 kmh over the speed limit on his way home, when they won't even respond to theft calls.

maybe after you see that kind of stuff over and over for a few decades you might understand why this country is riding on a reputation it no longer deserves

 

[L-A]

^ It couldn't take any other direction, could it?

 

[champbassist]

For anyone thinking of having a first cigarette, just go ahead and do it.
Just don't come back to us with an "I Got Lung Cancer " thread in the future.

What I mean to say is that I'm quite surprised by why anyone would want to smoke, given the obvious health implications.

If you still want to go ahead and do it, it's your life. Do it but just make sure you aren't destroying any one else's life (like your family members') while you do this.

 

[DWBass]

I am so glad it made me nauseous and dizzy when I tried to smoke as a teenager! Kissed a smoker once...................ONCE!

Ugh!

My advice.............don't start smoking!

 

[Fun Size Nick]

0.08 doesn't seem like a low blood alcohol limit to me...in Australia I'm used to a 0.05 limit! You don't have to be anywhere near 'drunk' for alcohol to have a detrimental effect on reaction times and judgement.