Same here! When I got my Icon I slapped on a set of La Bella Beatle Bass flats on it, set the intonation, and it's been good ever since.
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Flats do not work on shorties
- Thread starter senorblues
- Start date
Same here! When I got my Icon I slapped on a set of La Bella Beatle Bass flats on it, set the intonation, and it's been good ever since.
With all the positive responses from other flats+shortscale users, I'm thinking there is something 'up' with your bass. Can you post pics, in particular the bridge and nut, with flats installed?
The problem might lie in a small corner of bass technology. If straightness and action are within reasonable specs then we have to look further. If the strings are twisted between bridge and tuners, this will produce strange effects. First make sure they aren't twisted. If that's not the case, there is also the total construction of body, neck and string to consider. The entire construction resonates. Flatwounds have substantially more material, making them heavier then rounds. More mass means more tension and more kinetic energy caused by vibration. This may cause the woodwork to respond differently. You may also check whether the neck is well secured to the body. Good luck!
I agree with you! Physics proves that short scale basses do not intonate correctly, or as well, as long scale basses. That's why basses have long scales. That said, I am a short scale player and I know exactly what you mean about flats on short scale basses. I've stated this out here before. Something just doesn't sound right with flats on a short scale bass! That's one of the reasons why I switched to rounds and the tone world opened up for me. Wow! I couldn't believe it. I used RotoSound Swing Bass 66 rounds sets for over a decade and recently switched to LaBella Deep Talkin' rounds. If you want a deader sound, palm mute and tear away. Best of both worlds and more versatile. I seldom look back to flats but do have a 3rd bass set up with flats for fun, etc. But, my go-to bass has rounds!
There are allot of SS flats players with no issues so it must be the string, bass or setup. SS basses were used with flats allot in the 60's and 70's and so it works. It has to be other issues than the scale, for if it was just the scale there would be intonation and sound issues with any kind of strings not just flats.
Most bass players play long scale basses and most basses made are long scale. The (gray?) issue in the original post by ‘senorblues’ was not ONLY referring to frequency intonation but to OVERTONES. I imagine most players just do not hear the overtones. Here’s one of the posts by the ‘senorblues’ and I agree with him from my experience.
My tuner shows correct intonation. The problem is what I am hearing. The sound of the fundamental is not clear or strong; sounds out of tune because of harmonics or overtones I don't know- but especially high on the fretboard.
Understood but I have never heard overtones and suggest you to adjust the pickup height...might help.
Overtones, Man, overtones! NOT the frequency as detected thru a tuner.
(Maybe the pickup height will help, but I doubt it.)
Wrong. PROVE IT. Present scientific evidence based in physics if you want anyone to swallow this absurd assertion. You'll need to measure and reproduce the frequencies generated by different scale length basses (tones and "overtones") and make an argument based on measurable and documented phenomena. Otherwise, it's not based in physics.
You're missing three critical words: "In my opinion". This is not a fact, and thousands of bass players disagree with it. Just because you don't like the sound doesn't mean the same applies to others. Your opinion is not reality to anyone but you.
And I agree. The electric bass is not a complicated machine just some wood ,wire, cheap electronics and cast metal parts. To get one to work and sound good is not rocket science no matter what the scale is.
Either twisted strings or pressing way harder than needed when using flats. Flats not intonating on a short scale is bunk, sorry.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Flats do not work on shorties
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gee you could use rounds ... just let them get old and after a few years they will sound like flats.
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gee you could use rounds ... just let them get old and after a few years they will sound like flats.
I've known about this for decades from repair men, players, and my own ears. There's tons of info on this. With only a quick 10 minute search I found many references. Here's a few. I'm sure there are better articles than these. I'll keep looking. Please feel free to knock yourself out, prove it to yourself, and then report back with your findings so others can learn.
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Another difference in long scale and short scale models is the tonal quality. Because the scale length influences the tonal value due to the tension of the string at a certain pitch, the tonal quality on 5 string bass guitars is enhanced with a longer scale neck because it gives better sound to the lowest string. On short scale models, the G string will sing out and the tonal quality is perfectly acceptable.
Bass Guitar Scale Length Stretching Too Far? | The Bass Guitar Blog
The long scale 34 inch bass dominates as the standard these days for a range of reasons. A longer scale length means higher tension and/or thinner strings can be used, generally producing a better tone. Intonation is also less tricky at longer scale lengths (keeping the bass in tune across different notes).
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With regard to tone, a longer scale "brightness" or cleaner overtones and more separated harmonics versus a shorter scale which favors "warmth" or more muddy overtones. According to Dave Hunter's "Tone Manual" (2011), each scale length has its characteristic sound and tone, which is individual from other sounds in the tone chain: strings, pickups, pedals, amplifiers, speakers, and cabinets.
I quite like the tone and the intonation I get with Chromes and tapes on my short scale basses. I had a short Waterstone that sounded funky up high, but I chalked it up to that particular bass.
I tend to avoid making absolute statements about such complex and subjective things as whether a type of string "works".
I tend to avoid making absolute statements about such complex and subjective things as whether a type of string "works".
...for you...
That said, I find the most difficult bass to set intonation on is a Hofner, due to it's bridge... However, it is still possible to get it "right," and sounding good. I believe no bass is as complex and interesting sounding, and/or as gratifying with flats as a German made Hofner!
IME/IMO, YMMV
