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Fodera Club Part II

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I would say that this is entirely the benefit of the information age, for better or worse. I think it's a credit that they've come forward with the situation, because its a good sign that despite a problem existing, they're acknowledging that it exists and explaining how it'll be fixed. It sucks, but its a good outcome, hopefully.

And of course, it should be said, I've talked to both Joel and David over email before, and they're both gracious and helpful people, so I can't imagine they're happy with the situation either.

But really none of this matters. The only thing that truly matters, in the end, is that the customers get their orders filled and end up happy, and it appears all parties are doing their best to ensure this.

FWIW, this method of business is completely normal for stores. GS wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary. I don't know how Fodera works with its dealers specifically, but often in a custom order, your money will only reach the luthier once the order is filled. Any deposits, etc, are for the store, not the builder.

Let's call a spade a spade...

There are two guys David And Joel one of them apparently accepted orders, took deposits and never placed those orders. That is not normal but heck what do I know you've talked to them over email.

Joel is around and trying to make the situation right to the best of his abilities....I won't make any direct accusations but come on man.
 
Yes, I was talking about the "holding money" part of it. That's normal. The "not placed the orders" part of it is what's F'ed about it. Sorry, that was the point that was a bit too subtle.

I don't have any allegiances to anyone involved. I've just been through a pretty terrible situation with a luthier, so I know all about F'ed situations. The not-placed-orders is not defensible- I just wasn't talking about that portion of it.

Calm down people.
 
The reality is that for better, or worse, we all now live in a world where virtually everything we do can become public in a matter of minutes. History will decide if this is good or bad...however, as long as I have been managing companies I have always demanded one thing of the people I have been fortunate enough to surround myself with -- transparency.

We are all human -- we can and will make mistakes -- sometimes painful ones. IMHO, one of the major differences between great companies and not-so-great companies is how they deal with the inevitable mistakes that WILL happen. I promised in my first post as a part of the Fodera Company that Customers would always get Transparency. We cannot be a great Company without it...

Thanks again to everyone for the support thus far -- I am now off to meet the entire Fodera Team at the shop for our first of MANY "Fodera Cleans Up and Gets Oragnized" Saturdays. There is 26 years worth of stuff to sort through, organize and make our space easier for us to produce great instruments.

The best part -- we keep finding KILLER stuff. This is what makes the early start on a Saturday easy to take! One evening this past week (we don't do clean-up during shop hours!), we found fifteen pieces of the most gorgeous Crotch Walnut I have ever seen -- all sitting undisturbed since March of 1990 (when it was delivered). Who knows what today's clean up will find?!? Amelia Earhart's plane? The perfect top for your next bass?? ;) It's anyone's guess!!
 
What now if one or some of those customers affected by the GS not forwarding orders decide that they don't want those instruments anymore in view of drastically increased waiting time and the way their orders were(not) handled-
Should they not get their deposits back?

It is part of the contract when ordering, that the deposits are non refundable but not more so than it is for the GS to forward those orders.
So they basically broke the contract with the customers which would make it void if I was told the correct information.

I may well be wrong on this one, so please correct me if I am!
-and sorry ,just in case this has already been asked/answered!

Just wondering :)
 
I want to suggest an idea to make this thread more pleasant and to help people understand why we love Fodera basses!

So I will began by this.

I play Fodera basses because first, I love the contact of the neck in my hand.

These basses allows an incredible low action and they also allow me to play without using any strenght.
coming from fender basses, I had to adjust my playing because with fender basses (that I love too) you have to fight a little the instrument to get what you want, but with my Fodera, I got to keep the control of the strenght in my fingers because the instrument translate every nuance in your playing.

The shape, yes the shape of the monarch and imperial basses are to me simply wonderful, and really, on my imperial, I have access to the entire neck.

The tone, or I sould say THE TONE!!!!!!!
The imperial offers me a variety of sounds that I never dreamed of on an instrument, it's scary!!!!!
the tone is so precise, so clean, nd the preamp helps a lot
 
I want to suggest an idea to make this thread more pleasant and to help people understand why we love Fodera basses!

Isn't that the reason why those who started this thread (part I) have done it in the first place and why it has entered a "phase two" ? Those who posted this thread in the first place like those basses a lot?
It's the same as happens with many manufacturers.
It's by no means a bashing thread.
Just one that seems to have a little more substance and depth to it than the average "Oh look at my pretty bass" thread?
I for one find it very interesting and informative.
 
Isn't that the reason why those who started this thread (part I) have done it in the first place and why it has entered a "phase two" ? Those who posted this thread in the first place like those basses a lot?
It's the same as happens with many manufacturers.
It's by no means a bashing thread.
Just one that seems to have a little more substance and depth to it than the average "Oh look at my pretty bass" thread?
I for one find it very interesting and informative.

Yes of course, but when I look at this thread, it's always down to prices and stuff.... of course it's a part of the game, but i think that fodera owners should tell a little bit more why their instruments are so special for them
 
Nobody seems to want to be direct about this...

The GS accepted deposits on orders, but never actually had any plans to place those orders with Fodera. That is a big difference from just running out of money and filing for some sort of insolvency. If that's the case it's a criminal act plain and simple. It's nobel for you, Joel, to stand up and be up front as you can but I'm guessing you're not happy about it.

If I misread and am way off base I apologize in advance and will delete my post...

Peter,

I appreciate your point but, fortunately, the situation is something much less devious/calculated.

Essentially what is happening is TGS is disengaging from what has become a increasingly difficult situation with Fodera under its previous management team. We have a back order of around 8-9 basses that Fodera has just not delivered on. We've met and talked through this numerous times with Vinnie and Joey over the past few years - but they have host of historical production practices & issues that they, previously, just could not resolve.

The long and short of it is this: Vinnie Fodera and David Beasley had a relationship and understanding where Vinnie would only work on four TGS orders at a time. Vinnie maintained a separate queue for David's orders and would only keep four in it at a time. The beauty of this was that those orders got all of Vinnie's undivided attention - which was important if you knew some of the specs that David was managing for customer orders (Link Removed1, Link Removed, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed].) The down side was that anything outside of that queue was never entered into Fodera's books.

It's my belief that Vinnie extended this special arrangement because his previous relationship with David - who managed their custom in-house sales as a Fodera employee for a number of years. He was doing it as a kind, personal gesture but unfortunately, when looking at the details out of context and through the rearview mirror, it's easy to paint TGS as purposefully negligent - which frankly is not the reality.

One other important point to note: The issue around Fodera never receiving deposits on any of the outstanding TGS orders is not unique to those orders - Vinnie never took deposits on any of David's orders. Out of approximately 50 GS custom orders dating back to 2003, Fodera never took one deposit.

Without me going into a lot of detail about their historical operations and production practices (or lack thereof), this was just another non-standard (i.e. odd) arrangement that Fodera offered up as a "one off" to TGS.

That is the root of the much contested language in "Just Thumpin's" original post about never receiving orders or deposits -- This was the old Fodera regime's arrangement and it worked for a long time. Where it became a problem was when the new ownership took over the business and did their due diligence (as they should have) regarding open orders and discovered there were a number of "outstanding" orders that were not actually on their books. They were right to be concerned -- I would be also.

Jason and the team are doing a great job getting all of Fodera's operational issue's resolved. Clearly, Jason and I were furthest from the situation but we were brought up to speed over the last two weeks and agreed to address the issue collaboratively. We both recognized the sensitivity and unfortunate nature of the situation and worked separately from the others involved to identify a resolution that was fair and above all would ultimately get instruments into the hands of those impacted.

I hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you wish.

Thanks,
JC
 
Folks --

I am 100% positive that when Vinny and David originally decided how they were going to handle Groove Shoppe orders, there was zero intent to do anything but the best thing possible for the Customer. Somewhere something got off track but importantly, Joel has been really responsive and candid in my dealings with him in reaching a resolution to this situation. This is also NOT meant to be a comment one way or another about David as I just ended up working through things with Joel....
 
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First of all, although I'm very close to the Fodera crew, I'm only a supplier and endorser and have only heard of the issue with TGS within the past 2 days or so.

Unfortunately I think if someone decided they didn't want the bass anymore and they wanted to challenge the "non-refundable deposit" because they thought something wasn't fair they'd ultimately have to take it up with TGS. And the likelihood is that the policy will stand and that legal fees to reverse or override it would exceed the deposit amount.

I'm sure that David and Vinny were trying to establish some sort of unorthodox pardigm through which TGS could supply Fodera basses in a more timely fashion and that it was all done in the name of an attempt at a good business maneuver. But an hour is an hour and Vinny only has so many. I guess it just didn't add up.

Over the years, the one thing Fodera always WANTED to do was make everyone happy. That intention was always there. Now they also have the means. So let's do our best to look forward. Some people might not be happy with how things are NOW, but it's probably because of fallout from how things were THEN. Currently things are on a very positive path and those who hang in there with Fodera will end up with an instrument unlike any other. And hey...now you know when it's coming! That's a huge improvement already! I got my date for the new Mike Pope Signature model. New body shape!!!!!!! Can't wait!!! :hyper: Err....um.....I CAN wait. But only until then!!!:D;)
 
Unfortunately I think if someone decided they didn't want the bass anymore and they wanted to challenge the "non-refundable deposit" because they thought something wasn't fair they'd ultimately have to take it up with TGS. And the likelihood is that the policy will stand and that legal fees to reverse or override it would exceed the deposit amount.

Yeah, I don't think anyone here was holding the deposit issue against Fodera, because the deposits went to TGS, not to Fodera. The issue was centered more around "why didn't those deposits/order slips get to Fodera" and "since Fodera didn't get any money or order, what now?", which has since been answered.

Looking forward to see the Pope signature. I hope it's not better than what I ordered, because I don't want to have to change my order last minute!
 
I would like to suggest something to Fodera stuff to improve their services (if it will not make any additional troubles for them). :hiding:

It would be very nice if they could make some pictures during production of the custom made basses (showing the bass in different stage of production and also the manufacturers) – it will be a nice memory and incalculable monetary, intellectual, spiritual worth for the customers. :bassist:
 
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