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Fodera Club Part XV

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#381
nuwavedc said:
Maybe what gets adopted as a standard stays a standard for good reasons like the ones you mentioned.

What I enjoy thinking about Is what if leo started out with two humbuckers? Or a single music man type arrangement? Or three pickups? How would that have pushed the sound?

A jazz sits well in a mix, no doubt, but a mix of what...In a three piece the bass can occupy more tonal space than in a seven piece.

Take AJ,s contrabass, it has two more strings than an old fender and a different pickup setup. With basses seeing progressively more and more solo and melodic space since the fender inception I don't think the original fender designs are always the go to. The two humbuckers on in a Fodera sounds totally different than a jazz and also sit very well in a mix.

It's interesting to think about how the bridge pickup location help to define the jaco tone in the same way that zons graphite necks and pickup locations helped define define manring's. Or the pj combo helped define victor's. etc... The tonal and dynamic differences push the playing different places too.

I don't have a particular point to make other than that I enjoy thinking about this stuff and playing and making different basses.
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I believe that of Leo hadn't done the two single coils someone else would've and eventually come across two locations that worked.

My Contrabass, a 1992, has two pickups that work together much like a Jazz. And I've always looked at AJ's later basses as being in the super P vein.
 
#383
steubig said:
re jamerson, i think a lot of people knew his playing and what it sounded like. john paul jones, paul mccartney, any number of r&b players in the u.s., ad nauseum.

now obviously, a lot of people didn't always play a fender, but it was in the air. think carole kaye, et al.

they other thing about jamerson was that i think he was an upright guy and early motown was coming out of the whole thinkg of pop music using upright, so dead flatwound strings made sense.

if you think of enwhistle starting to roundwounds it was an *incredbile* departure. it was radically different at that time, and i think a lot of people really disliked the sound when it first started up. (really a revolution at that time.)

without sounding like a jerk, i wonder how old you are. i ask because when i was coming up fender was absolutely the cool bass. people didn't call it "electric bass," they called it "fender bass." see bands with epiphone hollow bodies was not cool. the only cool guys without fenders were probably jack bruce and glenn cornick.

for me the jazz bass looked cooler (and i liked the sound better). back in the 70s, people might actually have been disappointed if you showed up with a jazz rather than a p for a demo session or whatever. engineers liked how the p sat in the mix, but they also didn't like taking time they knew what to do and it was what people expected to hear. sorta like how i used to have to deal with the hourlong drum check but the 30-second line check for bass when playing in clubs. engineers don't want to care.

in any event, i tend to think that what is considered to be something that works is based on what's come becore us. dunno if it's true or not.
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None taken.

I'm flattered by the age question. Here's a hint... I watched the first appearance of the Beatles live on the Ed Sullivan show. So your comment about cool while leaving out Paul McCartney could beg the same question from you.
:)

I already mentioned Chris Squire so I'd hope the Rotosound connection would be obvious. I'm not looking at this through a filter, there were lots of other basses being used besides Fenders in the 60's and 70's and IME Fenders became popular mainly because they worked. They seemed to sound "better" than most alternatives. I didn't come back to them because they're popular, I came back because they worked. I couldn't care less what was popular and neither did many serious musicians.

Generically calling all basses "Fender bass" was pretty much like calling all tissue Kleenex back then. Because Kleenex likely worked better than the competition.

You may have misunderstood my point about Jamerson and his bass. Back then most people definitely had no idea of who he was or what he used... and personally his tone wasn't what blew me away back then. It was his note choices and phrasing. I was lucky in figuring out that not ascribing too much credit to the tool was wise. Otherwise I might've spent even longer chasing basses that could substitute for shed time.

And I'd bet most bassists would've hated playing his bass.
 
#384
Brad Johnson said:
I'm flattered by the age question. Here's a hint... I watched the first appearance of the Beatles live on the Ed Sullivan show. So your comment about cool while leaving out Paul McCartney could beg the same question from you.
:)

I already mentioned Chris Squire so I'd hope the Rotosound connection would be obvious. I'm not looking at this through a filter, there were lots of other basses being used besides Fenders in the 60's and 70's and IME Fenders became popular mainly because they worked. They seemed to sound "better" than most alternatives. I didn't come back to them because they're popular, I came back because they worked. I couldn't care less what was popular and neither did many serious musicians.

Generically calling all basses "Fender bass" was pretty much like calling all tissue Kleenex back then. Because Kleenex likely worked better than the competition.

You may have misunderstood my point about Jamerson and his bass. Back then most people definitely had no idea of who he was or what he used... and personally his tone wasn't what blew me away back then. It was his note choices and phrasing. I was lucky in figuring out that not ascribing too much credit to the tool was wise. Otherwise I might've spent even longer chasing basses that could substitute for shed time.

And I'd bet most bassists would've hated playing his bass.
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you *are* old ;-)

i guess my point is two-fold.

one: people didn't know what jj (et al.) used, but they heard it and it became the template.

two: i remember pouring over the fender catalog when i was 14-16. but maybe i'm not serious enough . . .

yeah, i know about the kleenex thing. my wife calls 'em tissues, i call 'em kleenex.

still, i wonder if elvis' guy hadn't used a fender when they went to electric bass or monk montgomery hadn't used a fender, what might've changed.

imho, there's no real way to be able to prove either point of view. as you can't undo what's been done. to me it just mean challenging our own ideas of what is correct/not correct.

anecdote heard about jamerson. guy goes to the whisky in l.a. a band is playing. don't remember what kind of bass. sounds like a jazz with rotos from what the guy who related this to me said. jamerson sits in. bass goes from being high-endy to sounding like jamerson. allegedly no knobs were twisted to achieve this transformation.

(i did mention paul mac as being influenced by jj, by the way. does that give me points? and, of course, paul was one of the reason i started playing bass . . . )

last, every play a 54 p bass? i had an original. not a strong sounding bass, imho.
 
#385
steubig said:
you *are* old ;-)

i guess my point is two-fold.

one: people didn't know what jj (et al.) used, but they heard it and it became the template.

two: i remember pouring over the fender catalog when i was 14-16. but maybe i'm not serious enough . . .

yeah, i know about the kleenex thing. my wife calls 'em tissues, i call 'em kleenex.

still, i wonder if elvis' guy hadn't used a fender when they went to electric bass or monk montgomery hadn't used a fender, what might've changed.

imho, there's no real way to be able to prove either point of view. as you can't undo what's been done. to me it just mean challenging our own ideas of what is correct/not correct.

anecdote heard about jamerson. guy goes to the whisky in l.a. a band is playing. don't remember what kind of bass. sounds like a jazz with rotos from what the guy who related this to me said. jamerson sits in. bass goes from being high-endy to sounding like jamerson. allegedly no knobs were twisted to achieve this transformation.

(i did mention paul mac as being influenced by jj, by the way. does that give me points? and, of course, paul was one of the reason i started playing bass . . . )

last, every play a 54 p bass? i had an original. not a strong sounding bass, imho.
Click to expand...

I'm 56.

Your Jamerson anecdote actually goes to my point... HE sounded like Jamerson, not his bass. I honestly don't recall many folks buying a Fender trying to emulate his sound. Maybe you do.

Believe it or not I actually owned a 54 P bass. It was very early on in my bass playing journey, I got it cheap (it was stripped) and I traded it straight up for a brand new first year Stingray. I was amazed that the dealer was dumb enough to go for that deal. Big education moment there.

You didn't mention that Macca was cool which in the context of this tangent was pretty amazing. When they hit he was the coolest bassist on the planet. No points for you.
:D

I got to watch boutiques grow almost from the start. So while Fender became the standard, the unobtainable basses are what bassists really seemed to lust after.
 
#386
Brad Johnson said:
I'm 56.

Your Jamerson anecdote actually goes to my point... HE sounded like Jamerson, not his bass. I honestly don't recall many folks buying a Fender trying to emulate his sound. Maybe you do.

Believe it or not I actually owned a 54 P bass. It was very early on in my bass playing journey, I got it cheap (it was stripped) and I traded it straight up for a brand new first year Stingray. I was amazed that the dealer was dumb enough to go for that deal. Big education moment there.

You didn't mention that Macca was cool which in the context of this tangent was pretty amazing. When they hit he was the coolest bassist on the planet. No points for you.
:D

I got to watch boutiques grow almost from the start. So while Fender became the standard, the unobtainable basses are what bassists really seemed to lust after.
Click to expand...

so you and are are the same age.

i think the point about jamerson is that the tone was the same.

but you, know, i did want a jazz bass cause it looked cool. i didn't think a hofner looks cool. though my first bass was a violin-shaped bass and me second was a hofner 335-style.

never liked the p sound, but the engineer guys preferred it. and i did get one because carole kaye had one.

so you know what i mean about the 54, right? not the sound that launched a thousand ships for me . . . yet it did.

again, it's not always knowing it intellectually, but hearing it that may make you want that sound. more subliminal.

like i said, it's a dance that's gonna go around . . .
 
#388
steubig said:
so you and are are the same age.

i think the point about jamerson is that the tone was the same.

but you, know, i did want a jazz bass cause it looked cool. i didn't think a hofner looks cool. though my first bass was a violin-shaped bass and me second was a hofner 335-style.

never liked the p sound, but the engineer guys preferred it. and i did get one because carole kaye had one.

so you know what i mean about the 54, right? not the sound that launched a thousand ships for me . . . yet it did.

again, it's not always knowing it intellectually, but hearing it that may make you want that sound. more subliminal.

like i said, it's a dance that's gonna go around . . .
Click to expand...

The first bass I gigged with was a lefty Hofner copy (I'm a righty).

I know exactly what you mean about the P but I didn't really have an issue with mine. Actually I rarely had issues with basses early on, I figured anything I didn't like about one was probably my fault. Kept me from looking at a "better" instrument as a fix. Learned that in that same first band. The sax player went through four or five top of the line Selmers... they all had problems. Then this guy sat in and played his sax. It wasn't the sax. I never wanted to look as bad as a musician as our sax player did at that moment.
 
#390
So, back to discussing Fodera's on the Fodera thread. :ninja::smug:

Who has owned a YYS and the MGS both? Thoughts? Differences?

Nostatic, I think you can enlighten with your VAST experience on both.

I'm thinking about getting one or the other, but I just can't decide.

Thanks
 
#391
Just Thumpin' said:
Everyone knows that Olympic and Fedoras are great basses!

J
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I remember going to my first Stanley show back in the early 80's. I was barely adolescent. And while I played my fathers jazz at home I lusted for Stanley's Olympic...I kid you not, that's what I thought it was called, until a knowledgable bassist set me straight.
 
#394
nuwavedc said:
I don't want to get too far off topic, and If I do it's because I'm enjoying a place with a collection of intelligent folks, that's all. I'm a Fodera man all the way but how I arrived here is a long story, but it included building a lot of my own basses. When I couldn't afford what I wanted 10 or 15 years ago I built one. I made a few jazzes, a zon copy and a ct copy. The left bass has a piezo bridge and an em pickup, mahogany wings and a maple neck thru. The center bass in my science project jazz, it has a walnut top, ash back, maple neck ebony board withe every possible pickup coil setup you can get out of two dual coils. The right most is a 36" scale with coco bolo top, mahogany back, maple neck, ebony board. The tight pickups at the bridge were an interesting experiment the bass probably weighs 14 lbs and the B is ridiculous. I had a chance to play them all live years ago, and Ive got a pile of other high end bought basses.

I'm playing two basses these days, a 34" imperial elite and an mgs. I've got another Fodera in the works. I never tried to make a Fodera like bass because I can't even come close to the workmanship. They got so many things just right.
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Nice work.
 
#395
#398
Brad Johnson said:
I followed your link and came right across this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKNYh-ocjAY&feature=relmfu

That bass on that show was a real inspiration. I ended up with one just like it within a couple of years of saving. Then I decided I wanted a black one so I painted it with a can of spray paint. It was the 70's... that's what you did back then.
:D
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No auto tune, or lip syncing. The only "cheat" is they have the whole horn section from the Tonight Show Band behind them. That's pretty damn sick...
 
#400
Has anyone tried Bill Lawrence pickups in a Fodera?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


I've been looking for the perfect PJ pickups to put in my Monarch and I've been thinking about going with these. I'm looking for a good passive tone that will react nicely with my Pope Flexcore when I kick the preamp in.

I was thinking about putting some Fralins in, but they have a prominent high midrange bump that I'm worried may be too harsh.


Any thoughts?


Michael
 
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