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Four bangers on the decline?

#181
()smoke() said:
lots of sweeping generalization here, no?
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We are all entitled to our opinions but let me add a little more info:

I have been playing 40 years. I was there when back in the day was today. I have a son that is 23 and has been playing 10 years and he is into all the metal and heavy rock with a background listing to my old stuff of course.

As a father, I spend a lot of time talking with him about music, watching his DVD's with him, and talking "shop".

During those 10 years of being open minded and looking at what the youth of today is listening to, I still joke with him and call it "chainsaw music" because it does not have the melody that is "necessary" to create hits that last, and the example I use is Ozzy. Listen to his nursery rhyme melodies the same as he used 40 years ago and they still sell today.

But.....and there is always a but, Listen to Geezer Butler playing bass compared to any that replaced him in the 35 odd years since. No comparison in the fullness, melody, note "selection" run fills and, where they are applied, in fact his bass lines become part of the melody being heard, part of the song instead of under the mix as a drone in rhythm chord mode.

I find I practice more these days than I ever did (at least 1-2 hours per day) and at one point I didn't practice anymore. I again listen to the bass players, the notes being played, how well they fit and compliment the meody line, the separation, tone, amount of cut in the mix right down to the gear and amps being used, if live.

Bass players have the best gear available in history. The guitars are made with Quality Control where once there was no such thing. The amps are light years improved over what was available 40 years ago but the skill level has gone way down so that instead of the charts being full of nice tones and great bass playing, you now have to search for a great player. They just are not there because their influcences were not that good either.

Let me finish by explaining it this way.

Look at guitar players today. Mostly crap compared to past decades.

Most young players still have to go back to Page, Hendrix, Townshend, Iommy, and creep forward to perhaps Zakk, Randy or Dime and now it is time to remember that these guys are now 25 years ago, and grew up on the same Page, Hendrix etc.

What does that tell you?
 
#183
I haven't noticed a drop at all in 4's, tbh I see a few players going back to 4's.

The B is cool for having 2 octaves in one position if your reading, or the vocalist insists that things have to be transposed quite a lot to spare their vocal range. I've found it handy for that stuff but got back into 4's about 7 years back, tuning down to D when you need to put's you a minor third away from a low B, it's not much and I prefer the spacing and radius, apart from fretless, those I do buy in 5's.
 
#184
Kwesi said:
That you're old, that's about it :D.
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Heh, have to laugh and give the +1. I'm also old and lived through the Good Old Days, but I don't have quite the same euphoric recall as Aussie. In fact, I continue to often times prefer the music Them Damn Kids Today are making these days over the Golden Oldies. In the Good Old Days, I hardly ever even listened to the radio until Van Halen 1 came out. Then all of a sudden I was all over it and went out and got a bass.

Today, I've been known to have as much of a blast listening to/playing along with Trance as I do the occasional Led Zep tune.

It's easy to idolize and think a lot more supernatural powers and talent went into the Golden Oldie bass lines than in fact was really the case. Generally, it was more often a simple application of Billy Sheehan's method: "one, buy a bass; two, get in a band; three, play your a$$ off". That's really about all there was to it, and same thing today.

As for 4 strings, I agree with Kwesi. "ERBs" are definitely gaining in popularity, even 10 years ago you could walk into a music store and buy a 6 string Washburn bass right off the wall for $700. Now they're all over the place with most manufacturers making 5 and 6 string models of their main lines of basses.

IMO, there's no need to stick to a 4 unless there's some compelling reason to (i.e. in my case, ergonomic and permanent wrist damage reasons keep me confined to a 4). Nowadays the ERB versions, 5 and 6+ strings, offer everything you can do on the 4 plus the added range, etc.

My .02,

LS
 
#186
Aussie Player said:
Here is a lesson that even you could understand.

"Being famous or having a hit record, has little to do with being a good musician".

Here endeth the lesson.
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You say that as if I didn't already know it :rolleyes:. Besides, what does that have to do with the thread... or anything that's been discussed so far? I'm not seeing the connection. Perhaps you could explain it to a youngun' like myself?
 
#187
Aussie Player said:
Here is a lesson that even you could understand.

"Being famous or having a hit record, has little to do with being a good musician".

Here endeth the lesson.
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So what's the lesson? It sounds like an oblong concern about being famous with hit records rather than being good musicians? Don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than try to be famous with hit records again. BTDT, failed miserably and ended up here on TB with the rest of you guys (the ones that also never made it, that is).

I'm ok these days with just trying to be a decent bass player. I already know I'll never be more than a mediocre musician, but there's still a little untapped potential as a bass player. Another good thing about being old - you do get your priorities straight after a while ;)

LS
 
#189
I'll get us back to topic.

Seems like it to me. I can't say if they'll ever go "extinct" but I don't see anyone playing them around where I live. And beyond that it seems like most custom builders are building many more fives than fours. What say you, TB?
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First, what I'd like to say just to poke some fun:
You can't rock out on a bass with more than four strings.

Second, a real response:
I just watched John Taylor rocking out on a five for a few new songs at the Duran Duran show the other night, when the song needed the low B string. Then he'd switch back and play all the classic stuff on his four. So…

...There is room for both, but fours are never going to go away, they are the standard.
 
#194
spade2you said:
Maybe some food for thought or slightly off topic, but if you get a 5, why is there the assumption you stop playing 4, and vice versa? I don't get why there's an idea that you have to choose between a 4, 5, 6, or 7. I just grab what I want and when I want it without giving it too much thought. :confused:
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You don't, or at least I don't think so. I play what I want. I'm comfortable on 5s and everything I can do on a 4 I can also do with that one more string so playing a 4 doesn't make much sense for me. Eventually, I'll pick up another 6 along the way .
 
#195
Kwesi said:
True enough but I never said or meant to imply that they'd go away, just that 5s might be gaining more ground.
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As an addendum, I agree that 5's seem to be the new sweet spot. 6+ strings, tho, are still a little bit fringe. I lived with a 6 as my main instrument for about the last 10 years and definitely noticed life is a little harder with a 6 - somewhat fewer choices in terms of instruments and strings than with 5's.

I can't think of a reason for this except perhaps ergonomics. 6+ stringers are still a bit of a handful, so to speak, compared to a 5. Could be string spacing and so on. Technical adjustments may be another reason, particularly learning to mute strings - that was the biggest change I had to make when I went to a 6. You still have that constraint with a 5, but perhaps you can get away with it more on the 5.

Fender may be another reason - they have only one 6 string model (the Steve Bailey) and SB himself apparently didn't have a good experience with Fender regarding that instrument. He's gone over to Warwick now. But they make quite a few 5 string basses now. The 4 is still their bread and butter, tho.

If I could score a new left hand I'd love to go back to my 6 full time. I do miss the extra range. I can get by on the 4 but can do so much more on a 5+....

LS
 
#196
I think that if rock, country, blues, etc. music ever dies, the 4 may be in jeopardy. But I know it won't. OT: I can'y wait until this fad (I hop and pray it's a fad!!) of programmed, sampled computer techno crap goes away and ALL young people see the value of a MUSICIAN who has slaved over his chops playing real instruments making HUMAN music. I just wish it would go away. But I can see the division because of choices, mediocre radio rock bands and songs vs. metal and the extremity it has vs. techno and the dance culture vs. rap/hiphop street culture.

Back to 4, the simple answer to the majority of commercially successful musical styles, blues, rock, country, etc.. They have no need for more than 4. IMHO, they are here to stay and so is the 4.
 
#197
I recently bought my first 5 string. I have been playing it almost exclusively for the last 2 months, mainly because I want to be completely comfortable with it. I love playing the 5er, however just because I love my 5 string doesn't mean that my 4 string basses are passe' or no longer needed. I think it's pretty much 60-40 here locally on guys that play 4 string basses to guys who play more than 4.
 
#198
spade2you said:
Maybe some food for thought or slightly off topic, but if you get a 5, why is there the assumption you stop playing 4, and vice versa? I don't get why there's an idea that you have to choose between a 4, 5, 6, or 7. I just grab what I want and when I want it without giving it too much thought. :confused:
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Well this is what I do, but only for physical reasons. When I get the itch, I play my Bunny 6 until I start getting the twinge on the back of my hand. Then I go back to my 4's.

The only time there's a problem is if I learn something specifically using all the strings on the 6. Then I have to transpose it when I move back to my 4 string. Either I have to shift on the G or live with nothing below low E, etc. One song I did a few years ago I can only play on a 6 string in fact.

But that's really the only time I don't have freedom to switch back and forth.

Again, most of the guys saying "you don't need no steenkeen' 6 string!" are the ones who never lived with one for a while, or played it and a 4 or 5....

LS
 

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