• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Fret Levelling - what am I doing wrong?

I use the appropriate size and once I have just a thread sized sharpie line left I use the wider file to just kiss the very tops into roundness.
Every crowning file I have used that's supposed to be "foolproof" leaves a much wider line than thread-width. Sometimes I come back with one of the old-style files and just work the sides.


Are you using a leveling beam or a radius block to sand the frets?
Both. At first, I used the Katana, which I thought was pretty good, but the downside is getting it set properly; being understring with the string tension on, it requires the curvature on it to be matched to the neck bow. I wasn't sure I got that right, so it made me nervous the whole time I use it. Then I tried the beam, which I think requires finesse. Last week I tried a radius block, and somehow it looks as though the radius was off-center, with the frets filed more on one side than the other. But I want to check out the radius black more. The downside of the block is that it's short.

Did I use the word finesse? That's eluding me...
 
Not something you can answer so broadly. It's a skilled process and you might just need more practice to get more consistent results. People would have to observe you while you work to critique what you're doing right or wrong. Find a guide (read several to make sure you don't get caught up in any unique or odd approaches that might not be considered best-practices by the larger community), follow it, set up your instrument and test. No good? Take it down and do it again. Yes you're filing away life from your frets, but there's no other way to get good at the process. Maybe take a class if you really want to get some personal guidance -- great investment if you like to maintain your own instruments.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdplaid
Every crowning file I have used that's supposed to be "foolproof" leaves a much wider line than thread-width. Sometimes I come back with one of the old-style files and just work the sides.



Both. At first, I used the Katana, which I thought was pretty good, but the downside is getting it set properly; being understring with the string tension on, it requires the curvature on it to be matched to the neck bow. I wasn't sure I got that right, so it made me nervous the whole time I use it. Then I tried the beam, which I think requires finesse. Last week I tried a radius block, and somehow it looks as though the radius was off-center, with the frets filed more on one side than the other. But I want to check out the radius black more. The downside of the block is that it's short.

Did I use the word finesse? That's eluding me...


I’m not as (insert adjective here) of a builder or repair person as some folks here but I only use a radius block to radius the bare fretboard. Once it’s fretted or to finish a fretless fingerboard I use a long (almost full length of the fretboard) beam and sand along the string paths with the neck as straight as possible or even with the slightest back bow. If it’s a single acting rod the back bow builds in some relief if needed. I also have some large ziplock bags loosely filled with rice and support the full length of the neck as I’m sanding. Once the string paths are level use the beam to even out the areas between the string paths then crown the frets.

I have in the past added fall away but it’s not necessary in all situations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdplaid
For leveling the string paths I mean that do you follow the string paths or do you level along the center line of the neck? You need to follow the string patks as they need to be level. You can’t get them level if you stroke the leveling beam following the center line. When string paths are level you carefully blend those ”facets” to the radius.
If your crowning file takes material from the center tops of the frets your leveling is useless. They are no longer level.
 
First of all: I'm assuming you made sure the neck was perfectly straight when you leveled the frets, preferrably using a notched straight edge. If not, bad things can certainly happen. I'm also assuming the fret buzz appeared AFTER you had leveled the frets, because if it was also present BEFORE you leveled the frets... Well, that would strongly suggest that the problem is caused by something else, right?

Anyway, you're saying the buzzing "seems to" come from higher frets. Does that mean you're not sure where the buzzing is coming from? If the buzzing is only present when playing higher frets then yeah, the buzzing must obviously come from higher frets.

But if fret buzz is present when you play lower down the neck as well, it would strongly indicate that you have too much neck relief, rather than high frets higher up the neck. Especially if the buzzing is happening in the middle of the neck, say somewhere around 8th-12th frets. This is the part of the neck that will be at the bottom of a "ramp" if you have too much neck relief.

A neck made from poor quality, soft wood can also cause issues like this. Some basses just can't handle a correct amount of neck relief or low action without buzzing, no matter how perfectly you level the frets. The quality of the wood matters, a LOT.

Buzzing lower down the neck, like below the 5th fret, would of course indicate insufficient neck relief. Setting up a bass can be a balancing act.

You also don't mention how low you set your action, or how low your nut slots are filed. You should be aware that if the nut slots are too high, and you adjust your action "by numbers" rather than by experience, you will end up adjusting your saddles too low, which will definitely cause fret buzz. If you file the nut slots lower you should be able to raise the saddles, get rid of buzzing and still end up with the same (or lower) action at the 12th fret. Filing the nut slots to perfection is something I do NOT recommend doing "by numbers" using feeler gauges. This really has to be done by "feel" as every instrument is different. The choice of strings and playing style will also matter. Filing perfect nut slots is a skill that requires some experience. It is by far the most difficult thing to get right when servicing a guitar. It is much harder than leveling/crowning the frets. When in doubt, leave the nut slots slightly on the high side. They may not be perfect, but probably still considerably better than the factory nut slot heights. If you file the nut slots too low... well, there are a couple of tricks you can use to reverse it (sort of...), but none of them are ideal IMO.

Pickups too close to the strings can also cause buzzing.

Of course there may be a problem with your fret leveling procedure as well, but from your description I strongly suspect a setup issue. Especially if this is happening to more than one bass.

PLEK... Personally I don't recommend it. The level of accuracy may seem impressive, but do you really NEED that kind of accuracy? Play the bass for a couple of weeks and you've already worn the frets past the level of PLEK accuracy. Traditional fret leveling, when done properly, is just as good IMO. In my opinion PLEK treatment is comparable to using tuners with 0.1 cent accuracy to adjust the intonation, and then realize that when strings have been played for a week the intonation will have shifted to the point where that super-accurate tuner will tell you the intonation is off (while it is in fact perfectly fine).
 
  • Love
Reactions: bdplaid
On the subject of crowning, this pic is an example of what I mean: that finished crown line is too wide!
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20250114-220122.png
    Screenshot_20250114-220122.png
    841.6 KB · Views: 19
  • Like
Reactions: Beej
Best wishes...
I can do just about anything in regards to setting up, but I have not sacrificed any frets or nuts in my quest to do a professional setup - I leave that to people who are renowned for their valuable talents in regards to fret work and cutting nuts. Plus the outlay for the hand and power tools... I'm not going there.

At this point in time I don't see myself ever really doing that unless I went to a class or a industrial tutelage situation where I could knock a out maybe 25 or 30 and then I would probably feel kind of comfortable doing that work.

Basswise I spend most of my time playing fretless instruments abd a FSO Pbass, plus I also have a few different instruments that are fretted but like I said... I throw the fret and nut work in the shop... 'cause I gotta guy who's an expert.
 
Last edited:
I throw the fret and nut work in the shop... 'cause I gotta guy who's an expert.
Please note that you posted on a thread in the Luthier's Corner. I suppose the thing must have gotten onto the front page, which I wish they'd stop doing to LC threads.

"I fear this and don't do it" is fine for you personally if that's the way you feel but lousy "advice" in this particular part of TB.
 
Please note that you posted on a thread in the Luthier's Corner. I suppose the thing must have gotten onto the front page, which I wish they'd stop doing to LC threads.

"I fear this and don't do it" is fine for you personally if that's the way you feel but lousy "advice" in this particular part of TB.
I don't fear it, or much of anything actually but I really don't want to screw up a nice neck by indulging my inner luthier in a project that's "above my pay grade" so to speak.

In case you haven't noticed there's a lot of stuff on the front page with this new format and if somebody's questioning whether or not they should do something that they posess little or no experience... I'll throw my two cents in if I feel like it.
 
I don't fear it, or much of anything actually but I really don't want to screw up a nice neck by indulging my inner luthier in a project that's "above my pay grade" so to speak.

In case you haven't noticed there's a lot of stuff on the front page with this new format and if somebody's questioning whether or not they should do something that they posess little or no experience... I'll throw my two cents in if I feel like it.
Sure, except this is a community that is supportive and educational, so general commentary that is off topic and self-referential tends to clutter unnecessarily. No one can tell you not to post, but people may highlight the lack of value in your post here. You also shouldn't go into General Instruction and post your opinions about how you're self taught and just hire a proper bassist if you need a proper bassline. :smug:
 
I've leveled frets on six or eight guitars/basses, so by no means an expert. This isn't a complete step-by-step, just hitting the high points.

If the fretboard is straight while there is some tension on the truss rod I will move forward. If the truss rod needs to be loose to get the neck straight, then I will tighten the truss rod a little before leveling the frets.
Mark the tops of the frets, and sand.
As more marks disappear, and again when I think they are all level, I'll place a 24" straight edge on the frets along the string path, and then try a .0015 feeler gauge between it and each fret. I do this for all strings. If there is a problem area, then I mark the tops of the frets again and work the high areas until all frets meet the straight edge. This takes extra time, and I would love to say I didn't need to do it, but it keeps my work honest.
Mark the fret tops again and crown then buff.

Enjoy!
Jeff
 
I've come to realize that quality tools really matter. Things as simple as a fret rocker can be junk if not made properly - I have one from Amazon that has two side that aren't straight. I recommend staying away from Chinese brands.

I'm now re-evaluating my approach even to sandpaper. I'm a lifelong woodworker and generally have used anything that worked. But on basses, for the light grits, I clearly prefer 3M brand. 3M just works better.

Feel free to chime in.
 
For available in Home Depot or Auto Zone, 3M sandpapers are usually my first choice. I’ve had good luck with the Diablo net sanding discs. Then for online ordered I like Mirka. I’ve ordered another one online also but I’d have to look at the brand at home.
 
I've come to realize that quality tools really matter. Things as simple as a fret rocker can be junk if not made properly - I have one from Amazon that has two side that aren't straight. I recommend staying away from Chinese brands.

I'm now re-evaluating my approach even to sandpaper. I'm a lifelong woodworker and generally have used anything that worked. But on basses, for the light grits, I clearly prefer 3M brand. 3M just works better.

Feel free to chime in.

Have you seen my thread about stone leveling beams?

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/special-tools-stone-bar-for-leveling-frets.1298155/

I agree that, if you are going to use sandpaper on your leveling beam, 3M's classic wet/dry paper is the best I know of, in flatness and consistent thickness. But still, I got better results leveling frets using an 8" Norton Medium Oilstone. I used that for years, until I developed the stone beams in 2017.
 
  • Like
Reactions: boxerrider