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Fretless-Lined or unlined?

#102
I've always played unlined. I am also not the great musician or even gifted. But I found that from a positional standpoint (and even with a fretted instrument) I am standing more upright from when I was younger. More and more so, I only see the edge of the neck. With a fret-less I never had a problem. With a fretted instrument I continually looked at the fret-wire. And after some time - I begin watching yet continue by feel and sound alone. It's not difficult, believe me.
 
#103
SCMan88 said:
Yeah well,the thing is that I'm more afraid about no lines in the higher frets,where the distance between each note is getting really tiny.
So without lines,I think its really hard getting the right notes if you are new to unlined fretless.
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The upper frets can be considerably more difficult on 6+ string basses as well, as the side dots become less and less visually helpful the further away the strings are due to how your eyes deal with the perspective. Some extended range basses that are mostly unlined have small markers on the treble side of the upper registers to aid with this.
 
#105
Striver said:
I recently attended a high school concert. Looking at all the young cellists, bassists, violinists and violists, all playing without fret lines, made me wonder why I should require fret lines. Also, I've had two fretless basses, both of which had buzzing issues due to the fret markers. I say go unlined.
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Those instruments use physical reference points which are not available on the bass guitar. You would know that if you played upright.

All fretless bass guitar players use visual markers. Nature of the instrument.

The points being "considered" here are what kind of marking system is most appropriate. It seems pretty clear that the right answer is that there are several systems and different players favor different systems. Cats ought to just let it go at that. People making statements that one or the other is somehow wrong are somewhat uninformed, and that leads to some of the contentious posting, IMO.
 
#106
spade2you said:
Not a design flaw. It's an available custom option. Don't like it? No problem, the traditional unlined of fully lined options are also available.
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It is flawed.
Either the side markers are in the right place or the wrong place. In the case of the above photo, for a fretless bass, they're in the wrong place. I think we all know what would happen if one used the markers on that bass.

What Zon should do, is have a fretless neck with the markers in the correct positions, and then offer the lined/unlined/blank option.

Like I said... at that price point, side markers in the wrong place doesn't cut it.
 
#112
bucephylus said:
The points being "considered" here are what kind of marking system is most appropriate. It seems pretty clear that the right answer is that there are several systems and different players favor different systems. Cats ought to just let it go at that. People making statements that one or the other is somehow wrong are somewhat uninformed, and that leads to some of the contentious posting, IMO.
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I have to agree 100%
 
#113
kesslari said:
So Gary Willis and Jaco are/were hoping to get good enough that they could play unlined, right? :rolleyes:
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I don't recall ever saying such a thing. :confused: I don't think that either of these guys depended on lines to become great bassists, and I am not implying that unlined is NECESSARY to become better. I'm saying that unlined kinda FORCES you to become a better bassist. It did for me, so I'm offering this worthless piece of advice to someone who asked for it.
 
#114
The history of these marking systems is interesting, but not necessarily relevant to making decisions going forward. A bunch of us older players just got used to a certain system. Doesn't mean its right or wrong.

I just did a gig last week with a new band, and used the fretless (with lines) to good effect. Among the tunes, we covered Smooth Operator, and I would say that for me getting that little bass break accurately at the high D would be tough without the lines. Anyhow, it sounded good, and everybody was happy; which is my primary job. Those who think I am cheating with training wheels are more than welcome to their opinion.

GL2A
 
#115
MD said:
It is flawed.
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No, Spade is right - it's not a flaw, it's just a different marking system.
Either the side markers are in the right place or the wrong place. In the case of the above photo, for a fretless bass, they're in the wrong place. I think we all know what would happen if one used the markers on that bass.
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No, they're in a _different_ place. Like any marking system, you have to learn to use it. If you don't know how to use it, that's your fault, not the bass's fault.

May be different from the norm, but as long as they line up to note positions somewhere, it's not flawed.

LS
 
#116
Antny said:
I don't think that either of these guys depended on lines to become great bassists,
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Can't speak for Gary, but if you check out Jaco's interviews etc it becomes pretty clear that the lines were critically important to his approach. At least, that has been my take. YMMV.

Which may or may not be relevant. I mean a given player's approach and material is what it is. Whatever Jaco or Gary did/do is only relevant if you are interested in their technique. Valid techniques with no lines (Steve Bailey) are also out there. The more the better. Want to develop new approaches? Go for it. I'm behind it. Just don't waste your time dissing other approaches.
 
#118
Just to add one more unsolicited comment from the wars: I see more than a few posts where cats are saying that the mix is really dense and they have trouble hearing themselves - so the lines help.

One thing I have found is that there comes a point where the fretless just simply isn't worth it. This is especially true with heavy guitar wash. I just leave the fretless home when the guitars insist on taking up all the real estate. Just not worth it for me. Here in Phoenix I find this to often be the case. Sad but true. It takes a guitarist who is actually aware of the mix to give the fretless room to breath. Marvelous when it happens, but I don't spend any more time worrying about it these days. That's why Leo invented frets! IMO/YMMV.
 
#120
Antny said:
Unlined. It'll make you a better bassist.
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Antny said:
I don't recall ever saying such a thing. :confused: I don't think that either of these guys depended on lines to become great bassists, and I am not implying that unlined is NECESSARY to become better. I'm saying that unlined kinda FORCES you to become a better bassist. It did for me, so I'm offering this worthless piece of advice to someone who asked for it.
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No, it won't, and your advice is flawed. Practice will make you a better bassist- nothing more. If you were forced to become a better player/listener when playing an unlined, then it was because you were failing to do what you needed to when using a lined fretless. And if you can force yourself to do it on unlined, then you can force yourself to do it on lined. Don't blame a bass for your own faults. Not to mention if that if there was any truth to it, the number of unlined players with great intonation with be far greater than the number of lined players with great intonation, which is obviously not the case (some instructors like Steve Lawson has said it's usually quite the opposite). The time and effort you put in is the only thing that will force you to get better.
 

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