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G&L Club Part 7

#29,461
Between all the M-series talk and Kiloton talk, has anyone tried to build an "M-1505" (or 1500)? I'd be really curious about using the M-series MFD in a Kiloton placement with a 3-band active EQ. Kinda getting into Stingray territory there, but I think it might just could be really cool. Hmm...

Come to think of it, I have a Mike Pope 4-band EQ sitting here next to me; a Kiloton 5 with an M-MFD and the Pope might be a very tasty combo. As much as I love my L2500 and MFD-equipped SB1 and LB-100, I also have very fond memories of an EBMM Bongo 5 that I had for quite a few years and should've never sold. The 4-band EQ in that bass was fantastic (and of 15 basses in my stable, only one is active right now, so I'm not big on preamps).

I don't need another bass or another project, but...
 
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#29,462
lowfreqgeek said:
Between all the M-series talk and Kiloton talk, has anyone tried to build an "M-1505" (or 1500)? I'd be really curious about using the M-series MFD in a Kiloton placement with a 3-band active EQ. Kinda getting into Stingray territory there, but I think it might just could be really cool. Hmm...

Come to think of it, I have a Mike Pope 4-band EQ sitting here next to me; a Kiloton 5 with an M-MFD and the Pope might be a very tasty combo. As much as I love my L2500 and MFD-equipped SB1 and LB-100, I also have very fond memories of an EBMM Bongo 5 that I had for quite a few years and should've never sold. The 4-band EQ in that bass was fantastic (and of 15 basses in my stable, only one is active right now, so I'm not big on preamps).

I don't need another bass or another project, but...
Click to expand...
I consider all my basses to be projects until I get them sounding and playing like I want them to. Sometimes, it's taken years of experimentation, sometimes they just come to me that way, but they all arrive at that point sooner or later. Then I get stupid and sell them!
 
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#29,463
scubaduba said:
The comments on the Kiloton in a mix are encouraging. I can see where a pickup in that position would be mid heavy. I suppose pillowy is not a word associated with the Kilton. Am I right? I'm guessing low end is more "sharp" and "focused" than warm and pillowy.
Click to expand...

I used to have an L-1500 with the same pickup in the same position, and I would not call it "pillowy." The low end is tight and focused, and with the right rig it packs a very satisfying punch. It was definitely mid-heavy, but IME it varied tremendously across different rigs and in different rooms. At times, it sounded fairly thick (and awesome), but at other times it had a decidedly "bridge" pickup tone without much thickness, which I addressed with an Aphex Bass Xciter pedal. At its best, it was an unbeatable rock tone. But I ended up preferring more plug-and-play basses, especially after I got an SB-2 with all the punch of the L-1500 wrapped in old-school P-bass goodness.

lowfreqgeek said:
Between all the M-series talk and Kiloton talk, has anyone tried to build an "M-1505" (or 1500)? I'd be really curious about using the M-series MFD in a Kiloton placement with a 3-band active EQ. Kinda getting into Stingray territory there, but I think it might just could be really cool. Hmm...
Click to expand...

When I got my M-2500, I had exactly the same thought. Then I realized that with the blend control and EQ, you can approximate what a single pickup in the Kiloton spot would sound like. I can fairly easily make my M-2500 sound quite a bit like my old L-1500, and then fatten it with some bass EQ if I want.

But it probably doesn't exactly duplicate what an M-series MFD in the Kiloton spot would sound like, and I agree that would be really cool to explore. I bet it would sound fantastic.
 
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#29,464
lowfreqgeek said:
Between all the M-series talk and Kiloton talk, has anyone tried to build an "M-1505" (or 1500)? I'd be really curious about using the M-series MFD in a Kiloton placement with a 3-band active EQ. Kinda getting into Stingray territory there, but I think it might just could be really cool. Hmm...

Come to think of it, I have a Mike Pope 4-band EQ sitting here next to me; a Kiloton 5 with an M-MFD and the Pope might be a very tasty combo. As much as I love my L2500 and MFD-equipped SB1 and LB-100, I also have very fond memories of an EBMM Bongo 5 that I had for quite a few years and should've never sold. The 4-band EQ in that bass was fantastic (and of 15 basses in my stable, only one is active right now, so I'm not big on preamps).

I don't need another bass or another project, but...
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that the M-series MFD humbucker is underwound. I think I've heard the number 80%, so 20% underwound, but I wasn't there when they did it, so I can't say for sure. :D Somebody who was there is Paul Gagon, the designer of the M-series basses as I understand it. He has a section on the Basses by Leo forum called Paul's Technicalities. If he doesn't answer, Ken Baker, the owner and moderator of the forum will see it and ask him as they're in touch. In fact, Ken might already know the answer. I've had an M2000, and to me, it sounded radically different than my L2500.

Though I'm told that Paul's M-series preamp, which was designed for the MJ-4, had the front end overdriven by the L-series MFDs, other preamps can take them. I have an LB-100 with a split coil MFD in it and a Seymour Duncan 2-band concentric EQ/preamp. It works great. I'd already put the preamp in that bass. The experiment was to see if it would tolerate an MFD. It did, and it sounded so great I never took it back out. I bought a new one for my SB-2, which I stole it from. But I like your project idea!
 
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#29,465
jglunt said:
Keep in mind that the M-series MFD humbucker is underwound. I think I've heard the number 80%, so 20% underwound, but I wasn't there when they did it, so I can't say for sure. :D Somebody who was there is Paul Gagon, the designer of the M-series basses as I understand it. He has a section on the Basses by Leo forum called Paul's Technicalities. If he doesn't answer, Ken Baker, the owner and moderator of the forum will see it and ask him as they're in touch. In fact, Ken might already know the answer. I've had an M2000, and to me, it sounded radically different than my L2500.

Though I'm told that Paul's M-series preamp, which was designed for the MJ-4, had the front end overdriven by the L-series MFDs, other preamps can take them. I have an LB-100 with a split coil MFD in it and a Seymour Duncan 2-band concentric EQ/preamp. It works great. I'd already put the preamp in that bass. The experiment was to see if it would tolerate an MFD. It did, and it sounded so great I never took it back out. I bought a new one for my SB-2, which I stole it from. But I like your project idea!
Click to expand...

Yes, the M-MFD was underwound by some amount, and wired in series. 20% sounds about right. I remember trying a few M-2500s when they came out and they were definitely smoother and brighter than an L-MFD in series mode, but still beefier than L-MFDs in parallel. The preamp definitely offered a lot of versatility.

The G&L online store still sells the M-series MFDs, so it wouldn't be too hard to grab one of those to put with the right preamp. I think I'd definitely go with something like the Pope, a Noll, or a Glocklenklang for that. Those are all relatively "transparent" with good EQ points (I'm not a fan of the EQ points on Audere, FWIW), which would allow the character of the M-MFD to prevail.

Don't tell my wife I'm dreaming of another bass project - she's still waiting for me to do a bunch of home projects like building a fence, etc. And the clutch on my tractor went out pushing snow over the weekend. Hmph!
 
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#29,467
scubaduba said:
There's a L2500 with Bartolini preamp in the classifieds.
Click to expand...

That's a great looking bass! I'm not sure about the Bartolini in there, though. I put an EMG preamp into an L2500 once (along with Vol/Vol and individual series/sc/parallel switches for each pickup) and that worked ok, but I don't think it really was any better than the original electronics. I did really like the SC option - that sounded like a super-beefy 70's Jazz, but the high end wasn't as snarly as a Jazz*.

I think the mid-range on the Bartolini would be useful. I've always felt like I sweepable mids were more useful in an L2500 than bass boost. I've toyed with designing my own hybrid EQ for the L-series that would provide sweepable mids, change the treble boost frequency profile, and maintain the passive B/T functions. Maybe someday I'll get around to it.

*this is where the M-mfd might come in handy - since they are underwound compared to the L-mfd, the single-coil mode should be tamer and brighter than the L-mfd in SC, a la more traditional Fender-esque SCs.
 
#29,468
Nedmundo said:
I used to have an L-1500 with the same pickup in the same position, and I would not call it "pillowy." The low end is tight and focused, and with the right rig it packs a very satisfying punch. It was definitely mid-heavy, but IME it varied tremendously across different rigs and in different rooms. At times, it sounded fairly thick (and awesome), but at other times it had a decidedly "bridge" pickup tone without much thickness, which I addressed with an Aphex Bass Xciter pedal. At its best, it was an unbeatable rock tone. But I ended up preferring more plug-and-play basses, especially after I got an SB-2 with all the punch of the L-1500 wrapped in old-school P-bass goodness.



When I got my M-2500, I had exactly the same thought. Then I realized that with the blend control and EQ, you can approximate what a single pickup in the Kiloton spot would sound like. I can fairly easily make my M-2500 sound quite a bit like my old L-1500, and then fatten it with some bass EQ if I want.

But it probably doesn't exactly duplicate what an M-series MFD in the Kiloton spot would sound like, and I agree that would be really cool to explore. I bet it would sound fantastic.
Click to expand...

SB-2 with all the punch of the L-1500 wrapped in old-school P-bass goodness.
Amen.
 
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#29,470
jglunt said:
Keep in mind that the M-series MFD humbucker is underwound. I think I've heard the number 80%, so 20% underwound, but I wasn't there when they did it, so I can't say for sure. :D
Click to expand...

I believe the M-series MFD humbuckers are underwound by 12% relative to the L-series. That was my recollection, and it's consistent with this post on guitarsbyleo.com:

The G&L Discussion Page - View topic - List of pickups used in G&L basses

They are permanently wired in series, so they're a less intense version of the L-series pickups wired in series. I think they sound great.
 
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#29,471
lowfreqgeek said:
Between all the M-series talk and Kiloton talk, has anyone tried to build an "M-1505" (or 1500)? I'd be really curious about using the M-series MFD in a Kiloton placement with a 3-band active EQ. Kinda getting into Stingray territory there, but I think it might just could be really cool. Hmm...
Click to expand...

Umm, don't want to give too much away, but your wish will be granted! It just won't quite make it for Christmas...
 
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#29,472
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#29,473
Hey all, just curious how much of a difference there is in the L2500 US models vs Tributes (they are damn nice)? I love the SR5 neck - do the US models come closer than the Tributes do? Or still chunky like the Tributes?

Fullerton Deluxe:
NECK PROFILE: G&L 1.750" nut width Medium C 5 with 9 1/2" radius

Tribute:
NECK RADIUS: 12"
NECK PROFILE: medium C
 
#29,474
NC_Rob said:
Hey all, just curious how much of a difference there is in the L2500 US models vs Tributes (they are damn nice)? I love the SR5 neck - do the US models come closer than the Tributes do? Or still chunky like the Tributes?

Fullerton Deluxe:
NECK PROFILE: G&L 1.750" nut width Medium C 5 with 9 1/2" radius

Tribute:
NECK RADIUS: 12"
NECK PROFILE: medium C
Click to expand...

Are the Tributes different than the US models? Yes. Quality of materials on the US models is better. You cannot really hear it, but you can feel it on various pieces. Most obvious is on the pots and switches. Noting that the Tribute ones are perfectly acceptable, they just feel different. Sonically my Tribute L2500 is nearly identical to my US L2500. I keep one strung with rounds and the other with flats to put a little more sonic space between them.

Is that Fullerton Deluxe neck profile correct? I always thought the standard L2500 radius was 12" for US Models. Maybe they changed it along the way. They have been standardizing production quite a bit more than they used to (9.5 radius would make one profile across the line since JB5 and Kiloton 5 both have 9.5). Both of my L2500s are 12" radius. Even with the same specs, the US neck feels a little different than the tribute. My US one feels slightly less chunky than the Tribute one. I expect there is some variation in the US ones though, so probably best for you to try one first.
 
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#29,475
I second what @ahadl2500 has to say. The Tributes are marvelous basses. The MFD pickups are built in Fullerton. The alnico pickups are built by Cort in Indonesia, supposedly to G&L specs, but does anybody at G&L ever check this? I ask because I have found the Tribute alnicos rather blah. I have a roomful of G&Ls, mostly Tributes because I'm on a tight budget in my "golden years." I'm mostly just a "pick it up and play it" kinda guy, so radius and neck shape don't matter too much to me. The 12" radius on a Tribute is OK, but my favorite G&L neck is on my SB-2. I had it made by G&L because the old one ski jumped, so it's a '21 neck on an '07 bass and is spectacular. I bought the '07 SB-2 used and just told Memo to remake the new neck to the same specs, whatever they were. I liked the feel of it, and the new one is even better. I assume it's a 9.5" radius. However, my favorite neck to play is on my NS Design WAV4. It has a 15" radius and was built by somebody in Indonesia. (Cort or Samick, I presume.) I love my Tributes and just bought myself another one for Christmas, but there is a subtle difference in feel and quality in the USA ones.
 
#29,477
ahbass2500 said:
Are the Tributes different than the US models? Yes. Quality of materials on the US models is better. You cannot really hear it, but you can feel it on various pieces. Most obvious is on the pots and switches. Noting that the Tribute ones are perfectly acceptable, they just feel different. Sonically my Tribute L2500 is nearly identical to my US L2500. I keep one strung with rounds and the other with flats to put a little more sonic space between them.

Is that Fullerton Deluxe neck profile correct? I always thought the standard L2500 radius was 12" for US Models. Maybe they changed it along the way. They have been standardizing production quite a bit more than they used to (9.5 radius would make one profile across the line since JB5 and Kiloton 5 both have 9.5). Both of my L2500s are 12" radius. Even with the same specs, the US neck feels a little different than the tribute. My US one feels slightly less chunky than the Tribute one. I expect there is some variation in the US ones though, so probably best for you to try one first.
Click to expand...
I love my L2500 tribute. If the USA neck is the same as the Tribute, I will just get another Tribute. If they are a bit different (huge fan of the SR5 necks), I am willing to spend a few $$ more for the USA one.
 
#29,480
One Way said:
@jglunt the stock pickups on my JB Tribute are FANTASTIC!! Just a unicorn bass the way all the components came together on it.
Click to expand...
Maybe it's just me. :wideyed::help: I have a Tribute JB-2 and a Tribute LB-100, and I put active EQs in both of them because the pickups just didn't do it for me. I also have a Tribute MJ-4 with noiseless Cort jazz bass pickups in it, and they sound great. But it also has an active preamp with a 3-band EQ. I'm glad your pickups are so good. Play on! Have fun!!
 

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