Geddy's bass tone

[Russ Ryan]

Dudes,

Once again, and I'm sorry for being repetitive, but I am still getting emails about info that I have posted on this forum. I know you all don't read it from the beginning, but PLEASE do me a favor and read all that I have posted! I want to share info, but the emails are getting a little much!

Thanks
RR

 

[Russ Ryan]

Hi John,

I am curious as to why you would want to add a pre-amp to the bass. I'm just offering my opinion, but to my experience, you have now changed the tonal sound sound of the bass itself.
Okay, here is my belief, and it is not set in any stone! This may be long, so bear with me.

Buying a guitar/bass is not that easy. What kind of music does one play? Do you require a 4/5/6 string bass?
DO NOT buy a bass because your fave bass/ guitar player plays that model, unless IT really suits your needs.
The hard part is going to a music store, grabbing an axe, and expecting it to be perfectly set up. This is rare.
Take this in mind and realize all possible options. Plug it in to an amp that you use or have tried and liked. Does it work for you?

My experience has always shown me that a bass/guitar that is very comfortable to play is most important, is #1. Now tone, I always feel let the guitar do it's thing. Instead of adding in-board electronics, use the amp and any outboard gear you may be using.
This is another one that is really important. Everybody plays different!!! I have been with Ged when he has picked up a cheap bass and played it. It sounded like Ged. I could go on about this.

I guess my point is that, develop YOUR sound!! It's all in your hands and how you use them. I know, I have said this before.

Guy's, my two cents!

Hi Russ,

I have the Geddy Jazz as my main bass now and love it, but was thinking of dropping a pre-amp into it (the Audere brand) to give me some more "oomph" and tonal options. I find that the pickups are a wee bit low on the output (which appears to be a common, but very minor problem if you read some of the threads here) and the upper mids can get a little harsh.

Do you have any experience with preamps in these Jazz basses? Is the "rewiring of the one pickup" on Geddy's original 72 to address tonal issues? (like the upper mids on mine)? Sorry if you explained it and I missed but I went through all the posts and didnt see the reason for rewiring.

Thanks
John

 

[tomersg]

I'll pay 2 hundred $ for your 2 cents! thanks for this words of wisdom.
i also have a problems with active electronics because of the reliance of battery, and if the battery goes bad in the middle of the show, its not very nice.. and you cant switch to passive mode at all the basses, like the musicman stingray i had.
the simplest is the best.

 

[tomersg]

Russ, can i ask what is the common salary for this job? is the payment good? of course you have the benefits of travel the world and see great shows from the best seat in the arena, but is the payment good? what are the skills for this kind of job? did you work before as Luthier or guitars technician or as stage and pa man? or back-liner? is there a demand for that job?

 

[ProfGumby]

........I have been with Ged when he has picked up a cheap bass and played it. It sounded like Ged..........

Thanks for that!! I have said that for years....not only about Geddy mind you, but often regarding guys wanting Geddy's tone....

It's nice to add your professional opinion to this.

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

Thanks for that!! I have said that for years....not only about Geddy mind you, but often regarding guys wanting Geddy's tone....

It's nice to add your professional opinion to this.

I agree with your agreement! LOL And that is exactly what I have always thought too. A lot of a player's "sound/tone" comes from the hands.

 

[Russ Ryan]

I won't say what I get paid working for Rush. They pay us backline tech's very well. Payment is relative to the act/artists you work for. An act that only can do clubs usually can't afford what "arena rock" artists pay. It's good money, but you earn it.
I'm not a luthier, nor do I want to be. I have taken lessons from a luthier in Toronto to learn repair techniques that are useful for what I do.
I learned what I know from ruining many of my own guitars way back when, etc. I don't suggest anybody try this. I read many books, articles, picked many brains, etc. As in any type of job, there is always a demand for people who are good. Being a good "roadie" is much more than how much you know about an instrument. I always say it's 25% how much you know and 75% babysitting!
A good backline tech has good people skills!

Russ, can i ask what is the common salary for this job? is the payment good? of course you have the benefits of travel the world and see great shows from the best seat in the arena, but is the payment good? what are the skills for this kind of job? did you work before as Luthier or guitars technician or as stage and pa man? or back-liner? is there a demand for that job?

 

[Russ Ryan]

OK,
Where is my two hundred bucks?
The check is in the mail......

I'll pay 2 hundred $ for your 2 cents! thanks for this words of wisdom.
i also have a problems with active electronics because of the reliance of battery, and if the battery goes bad in the middle of the show, its not very nice.. and you cant switch to passive mode at all the basses, like the musicman stingray i had.
the simplest is the best.

 

[spideyjg]

Thanks for that!! I have said that for years....not only about Geddy mind you, but often regarding guys wanting Geddy's tone....

It's nice to add your professional opinion to this.

What they said Russ. Really glad to hear this from you.

People pay way to much attention to the gear and not the technique. Unless you attack the strings like he does somebody could pick up his rig at soundcheck and not even come close.

Although I do find the Sansamp helps get the grind he has but only if coupled with a proper right hand a$$ whuppin of the strings.

Jim

 

[Russ Ryan]

I guess I should re-quote myself. When I stated Ged has never been keen on using in-board pre-amps, I should state that since I'VE been with him, he hasn't been big on active electronics.
I just want to avoid any confusion.

First, I will let you know about Ged's main bass regarding the pick-ups. I said I would follow up on that and will when I can. There is no re-wiring. It is a pick-up thing. Like I said earlier, I have to do some work to make sure I'm right. This can be quite involved.
Since I've been with Ged, he has never been keen on in-board pre-amps, in the bass. He as never given me any kind of Active Electronic bass to deal with.

 

[fremenblue]

I was listening to an mp3 file recorded from the board on Rush's tour that had Mr. Big opening for them. Geddy was late for sound check so Billy Sheehan filled in on Geddy's rig with Geddy's bass. Guess who he sounded like?

It was THE perfect example of what Russ was talking about. The music is in your hands first and that influences your sound the most.

 

[john_g]

Russ,

Thanks for the reply! I appreciate it. I chose the Geddy Jazz in SPITE OF being one of his biggest fans. The basic tone and feel of the bass was fantastic for the price range I was in. It also suits my style of music great. As a matter of fact, I resisted getting the Geddy because I didnt want it to appear that I was copying his tone. I have been playing for over 20 years now so I am long past trying to emulate my hero's.

I wanted to add the preamp to get some more tonal options and the output from the stock pickups is a little low (not a huge deal for me). From what I hear, the Audere preamp is pretty transparent as far as coloring the tone. I would like a "little" more bottom and tame the sometimes harsh upper mids (which could be dealt with in an outboard EQ Im sure, but for the price, the Audere seemed like a good choice). Thanks again for your time.

 

[chiplexic]

I gave that reply in case somebody else might find the info useful. Just like my findings about the bridge mounting location being different.

Thanks for your time here on the board.

I for one found your post informative since it gave me some string info I was looking for and the bridge position will definately play into some situations for me Thanks

 

[chiplexic]

I had a great teacher who got me into be-bop jazz. I was listening to Miles Davis, Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, etc. He always taught me to listen to Sax players instead of guitar players.
I was lucky enough to go to concerts at that time seeing, Oscar Peterson, Buddy Rich, Barney Kessel, Jim Hall, Ella, and my fave, Joe Pass!

Funny you mention Buddy Rich. When I was in high school in Dedham,Ma. (small town just outside of Boston) I had a music theory teacher who had music industry connections from his touring days. He arranged to book Buddy Rich to play a show with his band in our school auditorium one night. Students got first choice tickets and then it sold out to the public like wild fire. My teacher urged me to not miss this historic event or I would one day kick myself. I thought "how big a deal could it be if this guy has time to play at my stupid school, besides there was probably a keg party down the woods that night!"....Well kick myself I did!!! This was 1985-86 he died in 1987. Doooohhh!!

 

[Slaphappy]

This is another one that is really important. Everybody plays different!!! I have been with Ged when he has picked up a cheap bass and played it. It sounded like Ged. I could go on about this.

I guess my point is that, develop YOUR sound!! It's all in your hands and how you use them. I know, I have said this before.

Guy's, my two cents!

Exactly.

Throw ANY bass at Jaco..it sounds like Jaco.

I saw a rehearsal vid of Chris Squire from the 70's playing the hell out of a Jazz Bass....if you shut your eyes, it's his Rick LOL.

There are certainly always tonal variations between instruments, string combinations, etc...but the artist's style is the always the most defining aspect of tone.

Thanks Russ!!!

 

[SirCanealot]

I was listening to an mp3 file recorded from the board on Rush's tour that had Mr. Big opening for them. Geddy was late for sound check so Billy Sheehan filled in on Geddy's rig with Geddy's bass. Guess who he sounded like?

It was THE perfect example of what Russ was talking about. The music is in your hands first and that influences your sound the most.

Omg? PM me linky? ;P

Sounds like it's worth a listen!

 

[john_g]

Omg? PM me linky? ;P

Sounds like it's worth a listen!

Yes, if you have a link that would be cool to hear.

 

[Russ Ryan]

I appreciate your reply. You made some great points.
Guy's I'm not trying to say "I'm right, your wrong", kind of thing. I'm only offering my opinion and my experience for new players out there and help, if I can, not to possibly waste a lot of money.
I have seen so many young guys spend SO much money on guitars, pedals, etc, trying to get the same sound as their fave player.
I liked your statement about buying the Geddy bass as it had the tone, feel and was great for the price range. I will actually pass that along to Ged as he actually cares about this sort of thing. If I remember, when Fender approached Ged about doing a model of his 72, Ged wanted to do a good affordable model. He wasn't into the Custom Shop edition thing.

Thanks for all your insights. I have been learning a lot from you guys.

Russ,

Thanks for the reply! I appreciate it. I chose the Geddy Jazz in SPITE OF being one of his biggest fans. The basic tone and feel of the bass was fantastic for the price range I was in. It also suits my style of music great. As a matter of fact, I resisted getting the Geddy because I didnt want it to appear that I was copying his tone. I have been playing for over 20 years now so I am long past trying to emulate my hero's.

I wanted to add the preamp to get some more tonal options and the output from the stock pickups is a little low (not a huge deal for me). From what I hear, the Audere preamp is pretty transparent as far as coloring the tone. I would like a "little" more bottom and tame the sometimes harsh upper mids (which could be dealt with in an outboard EQ Im sure, but for the price, the Audere seemed like a good choice). Thanks again for your time.

 

[Russ Ryan]

Oh man, give yourself a kick for me as well!
I was so lucky to see these great people. There is a "theme" park in Toronto called Ontario Place. They used to have an outdoor concert stage in the round where the stage would actually revolve during the show. The concerts were free, with the price of admission, which back in the 70's and early 80', was about $3.00!!!
That's where I saw so many of these great jazz artists. Don't get me wrong, I went to a LOT of rock shows back then as well. One that still stands out is seeing Thin Lizzy open for Queen in the late 70's. Thin Lizzy is one of my fave all time bands
I wish I was with Rush back then when Thin Lizzy was their opening act in the UK.

Funny you mention Buddy Rich. When I was in high school in Dedham,Ma. (small town just outside of Boston) I had a music theory teacher who had music industry connections from his touring days. He arranged to book Buddy Rich to play a show with his band in our school auditorium one night. Students got first choice tickets and then it sold out to the public like wild fire. My teacher urged me to not miss this historic event or I would one day kick myself. I thought "how big a deal could it be if this guy has time to play at my stupid school, besides there was probably a keg party down the woods that night!"....Well kick myself I did!!! This was 1985-86 he died in 1987. Doooohhh!!

 

[heatsky]

Has anyone one else noticed that Geddy Lee's jazz and rickenbacker sounded extremely similar, hell even mentioned it one

I've owned a Rick 4001 since 1984 or so, and have had a Geddy Lee J-bass (two of 'em, actually) since 1999. The tones are kinda similar, but when you play both for a while, they will seem like night and day.

The Rick is way more mid-rangey, and drives well, but lacks the nice bottom and top the J-bass provides, at least in my experience. I don't think there is a bass sound anywhere that rivals the slightly overdriven Rick (a la Chris Squire in Yes's "Roundabout" or Rush's "Subdivisions) -- it's just huge. The J-bass can get that "Tom Sawyer" sound, but IMHO is a more versatile bass tone-wise.

The Rick's also a real warhorse when it comes to maintenance. I had mine refretted and rewired in '05, and haven't touched the neck since. The J-bass needs tweaking like every 5-6 shows, and I'm STILL trying to figure out the best way to do it.

I forgot to throw in my other three cents -- Geddy's been my invisible mentor for about 25 years. While I don't play exactly like him (who could?), I can do a pretty good sendup on his tone and technique. It really is 90 percent how he plays versus what he plays.

And an aside for Russ, thanks for your invaluable input -- it's an honor. I switched from guitar to bass all those years ago just because of Geddy's sound, and haven't looked back. And I can easily say the Geddy J-bass is the most satisfying instrument I've ever owned, period.