Geddy's bass tone

[Russ Ryan]

You nailed it, when it comes to maintenance between the Ric and the Jazz! When Ged broke out the Ric in rehearsals last tour, All I had to do was throw on new strings, and I adjusted the action a tad at the bridge, intonated, checked out the electronics, and it was good to go! The neck was perfect and that bass had probably been sitting in a case for YEARS without being touched.

I never had to touch the Ric for the whole tour besides the usual changing of strings and intonation.

His Jazz's, I had to do about the same as you mentioned, tweaking the neck about every 5 to 10 shows, depending where we touring at the time.
I find changes in humidity really affect Jazz's, more than usual for most guitar and basses.

If I may offer my experiences about constantly tweaking Jazz necks. I find for me, the best way to stay on top of this is to setup up the Jazz from day one. This means, before you go on tour, get the neck set at it's best for you, while setting string heights at the bridge at the same time. Keep doing this until you are completely satisfied with the setup, or if you are tech, the artist is completely happy.

My little trick is for now on, is to adjust the neck ONLY, until you get it back to where you originally satisfied. I pretty much, 99%, never adjust string height at the bridge for the rest of the tour.

I find this seems to work for me with all basses and guitars. There is always the odd exception!
I would also strongly suggest that after you have done this and are happy, re-intonate the instrument whether you put new strings on or not.

Another thing and most of you probably know this, but for those that don't, I always advise to set your bass/guitar, tuned to the pitch you will be playing that instrument at. Example;
Ged plays his main 72 at standard A440 tuning. I do adjustments for that bass tuned at that setting.
Rush play some songs where they are tuned a whole tone (one step) down. I do adjustments for that instrument tuned that way.
When I say adjustments, that is truss rod, string height, and intonation, etc.

Once again, this works for me but it may not work for everybody. I would always love to hear any tips and tricks from you guys. One can always learn!

I've owned a Rick 4001 since 1984 or so, and have had a Geddy Lee J-bass (two of 'em, actually) since 1999. The tones are kinda similar, but when you play both for a while, they will seem like night and day.

The Rick is way more mid-rangey, and drives well, but lacks the nice bottom and top the J-bass provides, at least in my experience. I don't think there is a bass sound anywhere that rivals the slightly overdriven Rick (a la Chris Squire in Yes's "Roundabout" or Rush's "Subdivisions) -- it's just huge. The J-bass can get that "Tom Sawyer" sound, but IMHO is a more versatile bass tone-wise.

The Rick's also a real warhorse when it comes to maintenance. I had mine refretted and rewired in '05, and haven't touched the neck since. The J-bass needs tweaking like every 5-6 shows, and I'm STILL trying to figure out the best way to do it.

I forgot to throw in my other three cents -- Geddy's been my invisible mentor for about 25 years. While I don't play exactly like him (who could?), I can do a pretty good sendup on his tone and technique. It really is 90 percent how he plays versus what he plays.

And an aside for Russ, thanks for your invaluable input -- it's an honor. I switched from guitar to bass all those years ago just because of Geddy's sound, and haven't looked back. And I can easily say the Geddy J-bass is the most satisfying instrument I've ever owned, period.

 

[Russ Ryan]

I must chime in about this as well! I would love to hear this. I was lucky enough to meet and get to know Billy Sheehan when I was with the Scorpions on their Crazy World tour back in 91. "Mr. Big" was one of the support acts for about two or three weeks of that tour. Billy was a great person, and what a great band!

I got to know Billy a bit as I mentioned to him that I was from Toronto and use to see his old band "Talas" quite often, back in the late 70's, early 80's. That freaked him right out!

For those of you who don't know, Billy Sheehan was originally from Buffalo, NY, which is just down the road from Toronto. Whenever Talas played a club in Toronto, we would always try and go see them. They were a great three piece band.

Thanks for that memory!

I was listening to an mp3 file recorded from the board on Rush's tour that had Mr. Big opening for them. Geddy was late for sound check so Billy Sheehan filled in on Geddy's rig with Geddy's bass. Guess who he sounded like?

It was THE perfect example of what Russ was talking about. The music is in your hands first and that influences your sound the most.

 

[lowbass68]

Another thing and most of you probably know this, but for those that don't, I always advise to set your bass/guitar, tuned to the pitch you will be playing that instrument at. Example;
Ged plays his main 72 at standard A440 tuning. I do adjustments for that bass tuned at that setting.
Rush play some songs where they are tuned a whole tone (one step) down. I do adjustments for that instrument tuned that way.
When I say adjustments, that is truss rod, string height, and intonation, etc.

Russ, Thanks again for sharing info about Ged's setup. Just a quick question. On his bass that is tuned down a step does he use a different gauge of strings than his bass tuned to A440? I have several basses tuned differently: EADG, DGCF, BEAD, ect. I try to match the string tensions as close as possible from one bass to another and end up using different string gauges on each bass. Thanks much.

 

[lowbass68]

I must chime in about this as well! I would love to hear this. QUOTE]

The clip is on Billy's site

http://www.billysheehan.com/audio.html

It is under "Misc. stuff" midway down the page.

 

[Russ Ryan]

Thanks for this!!!

I must chime in about this as well! I would love to hear this. QUOTE]

The clip is on Billy's site

http://www.billysheehan.com/audio.html

It is under "Misc. stuff" midway down the page.

 

[Russ Ryan]

Nope. Ged uses the same gauge for all basses. The bass that is tuned down a step, I find that I have to raise the action a tad as those suckers really flap around, so as to not get more than normal string buzz. Like I said before, Ged is a great person and true pro. When I do these kind of setups, the odd time he will mention that that bass' action seems a bit high. I tell him why I do it this way and he understands, enough said from him!

He trusts my judgment. When I first started working for him, I mentioned about using a sightlier heavier gauge for down-tuned basses, and he said no. So, I deal with that and do the best I can. I guess I'm doing something right because for some strange reason, he keeps hiring me back!!!

Russ, Thanks again for sharing info about Ged's setup. Just a quick question. On his bass that is tuned down a step does he use a different gauge of strings than his bass tuned to A440? I have several basses tuned differently: EADG, DGCF, BEAD, ect. I try to match the string tensions as close as possible from one bass to another and end up using different string gauges on each bass. Thanks much.

 

[heatsky]

You nailed it, when it comes to maintenance between the Ric and the Jazz! When Ged broke out the Ric in rehearsals last tour, All I had to do was throw on new strings, and I adjusted the action a tad at the bridge, intonated, checked out the electronics, and it was good to go! The neck was perfect and that bass had probably been sitting in a case for YEARS without being touched.

I never had to touch the Ric for the whole tour besides the usual changing of strings and intonation.

His Jazz's, I had to do about the same as you mentioned, tweaking the neck about every 5 to 10 shows, depending where we touring at the time.
I find changes in humidity really affect Jazz's, more than usual for most guitar and basses.

If I may offer my experiences about constantly tweaking Jazz necks. I find for me, the best way to stay on top of this is to setup up the Jazz from day one. This means, before you go on tour, get the neck set at it's best for you, while setting string heights at the bridge at the same time. Keep doing this until you are completely satisfied with the setup, or if you are tech, the artist is completely happy.

My little trick is for now on, is to adjust the neck ONLY, until you get it back to where you originally satisfied. I pretty much, 99%, never adjust string height at the bridge for the rest of the tour.

I find this seems to work for me with all basses and guitars. There is always the odd exception!
I would also strongly suggest that after you have done this and are happy, re-intonate the instrument whether you put new strings on or not.

Another thing and most of you probably know this, but for those that don't, I always advise to set your bass/guitar, tuned to the pitch you will be playing that instrument at. Example;
Ged plays his main 72 at standard A440 tuning. I do adjustments for that bass tuned at that setting.
Rush play some songs where they are tuned a whole tone (one step) down. I do adjustments for that instrument tuned that way.
When I say adjustments, that is truss rod, string height, and intonation, etc.

Once again, this works for me but it may not work for everybody. I would always love to hear any tips and tricks from you guys. One can always learn!

Hey Russ,

It never occurred to me to keep the neck happy first. That may save me a lot of time from constantly fiddling with the saddles! I live in the south, and go from doing gigs in the dry cold of winter to horrendous humidity in summer, indoors and out (well, Rush has played NC, SC, and GA more than a few times. You know how the weather goes down here). Even my Hofner violin bass needs less attention than the J-bass.

But the Jazz is soooooo worth it. I think Ged's on to something.

 

[Russ Ryan]

Dude!

I finally had a chance to listen to this. After having to download and install RealPlayer, amazing!
It was so great to hear Billy with Alex and Neil. Rush has done these kind of jams during soundcheck once in awhile, which are just as incredible with Ged, obviously. Listening to this with Billy and hearing the same kind of jams with Ged, are night & day. I mean this as to two great bass players with their own unique styles.

Guys, one great perk in my job, is being able to witness this kind of playing with Rush.
When I hear this, I understand why I'm a guitar tech and not a guitar player!!

Thanks man, you made my day!

I must chime in about this as well! I would love to hear this. QUOTE]

The clip is on Billy's site

http://www.billysheehan.com/audio.html

It is under "Misc. stuff" midway down the page.

 

[Saint]

I can't always speak for Ged but the chances of him breaking out the Wal are REALLY slim to none.

Russ -- If that's true, please tell him there's another jewish bass player born on June 29th (like Geddy) who would love to buy it from him if he's not going to use it any more! Just PM me!

Thanks again for your participation in this thread. I've learned so much!

 

[john_g]

Dude!

I finally had a chance to listen to this. After having to download and install RealPlayer, amazing!
It was so great to hear Billy with Alex and Neil. Rush has done these kind of jams during soundcheck once in awhile, which are just as incredible with Ged, obviously. Listening to this with Billy and hearing the same kind of jams with Ged, are night & day. I mean this as to two great bass players with their own unique styles.

Guys, one great perk in my job, is being able to witness this kind of playing with Rush.
When I hear this, I understand why I'm a guitar tech and not a guitar player!!

Thanks man, you made my day!






Yes, thanks for that link. It was pretty cool to hear and Billy is an amazing bass player and the sound is great. Sound like the Wal, right? Mr Big was opening for the Presto tour right? Maybe Billy should look into a Wal, it really sounded wonderful.

 

[ksandvik]

Yes, thanks for that link. It was pretty cool to hear and Billy is an amazing bass player and the sound is great. Sound like the Wal, right? Mr Big was opening for the Presto tour right? Maybe Billy should look into a Wal, it really sounded wonderful.

Billy's sound, like Geddy's, mostly comes from their fingers -- not specific guitars. --Kent

 

[john_g]

Billy's sound, like Geddy's, mostly comes from their fingers -- not specific guitars. --Kent

Yeah but that Wal sounds better than most all by itself!

 

[bassdudeguy]

Russ, I don't know if you answered this yet but are the chickens in the rotisseries real?

 

[Russ Ryan]

Nobody's has asked me that on this forum. I have been asked the odd time on tour.
No, they're not real. The chickens are just plastic 'prop' pieces. The rotisseries were designed, with Geddy, by a scenic arts company in Toronto. Except for Ged, none of us had seen them until they arrived at production rehearsals. He wanted to keep it pretty secret.
If I remember correctly, the scenic art company had a bit of a hard time finding 54 of the exact fake chickens to have the rotisseries ready in time. They were only able to find so many in Toronto so I think they had to get the rest from prop houses in NY and LA.

Russ, I don't know if you answered this yet but are the chickens in the rotisseries real?

 

[Dave Siff]

Hey Russ, thanks for all your insights and the great information. Rush has been my favorite band for almost 30 years and Geddy is the reason I started playing. I've seen every tour since 1986 and the band keeps getting better and better, so thanks for your contributions to that!
Which leads me to a question you probably can't and/or won't answer, but I'm going to ask anyway: have you seen or heard any indications that this might be the last tour? Rush is coming back to Atlanta in July, and I'm really excited about seeing the band twice in 13 months.. 9th row for the tour opener last June, 5th row coming up on July 22 (both times on Alex's side though!) But, it struck me that I can't remember Rush ever playing here twice on the same tour. That, combined with the fact that the guys are getting on in years (although they seem to be in great shape and they're a lot younger than the Stones or Led Zeppelin.) I seem to remember Geddy saying in a recent interview that the band wants to make another album. I guess all of us Rush fans realize it has to end at some point and I hope this isn't it.
Thanks again for taking the time to post here!

 

[Russ Ryan]

You're right, I wouldn't say if I knew, but I'm being honest, I don't know!
I'm with you and most other Rush fans, I hope they keep going. Hey, not only are they great people to work for but, it's employment for me and a lot of other crew as well. Yes we all get employment with other artists but a few of us have been locked up with Rush over the last few years and have been out of the loop a little bit, so to speak.
There are probably only three people in this world that know if they will ever tour again after this year!!

Hey Russ, thanks for all your insights and the great information. Rush has been my favorite band for almost 30 years and Geddy is the reason I started playing. I've seen every tour since 1986 and the band keeps getting better and better, so thanks for your contributions to that!
Which leads me to a question you probably can't and/or won't answer, but I'm going to ask anyway: have you seen or heard any indications that this might be the last tour? Rush is coming back to Atlanta in July, and I'm really excited about seeing the band twice in 13 months.. 9th row for the tour opener last June, 5th row coming up on July 22 (both times on Alex's side though!) But, it struck me that I can't remember Rush ever playing here twice on the same tour. That, combined with the fact that the guys are getting on in years (although they seem to be in great shape and they're a lot younger than the Stones or Led Zeppelin.) I seem to remember Geddy saying in a recent interview that the band wants to make another album. I guess all of us Rush fans realize it has to end at some point and I hope this isn't it.
Thanks again for taking the time to post here!

 

[melt]

I had a Ric, but really didn't care for it. I found it heavy and cumbersome. One of my 5 string Wals is one of the heaviest basses I have ever felt though. I don't play it that often because of its weight. For a 4-string, I really think the Rics are among the heaviest.

Steve Chesney

Steve, I've both played and owned many Rics over the years and they can vary in weight quite dramatically (just like any other bass). I've also owned one Wal and played many, many others and have to say that on average the Wals have been noticeably heavier than the Rics, although I have to say mine (a Walnut faced Custom) was relatively light; maybe 9lbs or so. My favourite Ric (a 72) weighs about 8lbs; the heaviest one I've ever played was probably more like 11. On average you're looking at about 9.

 

[melt]

I don't think it matters what kind of bass Geddy plays, he'll still get that Geddy sound. The actual bass is just one piece of the picture. You take his style, amp setup, effects, technique, recording equipment and all the other variables that affect his sound, then give him five different basses that he'll EQ into that desired sound, and there will be very little difference. What difference there is will only be discernable to one of us gearhounds that is trying to hear the difference, but no one else will.

And those talking about a Ric being so distinct in sound? Sure, every bass sounds a little different, but the Ric is nothing special outside of being a pretty nice bass, not unlike many others. I've used Rics before, the sound when mixed into a band is not too discernable, or different than any other typical passive bass. I have about 15 basses right now, once that I get "my sound" out of any of them, at least once that the full band is playing, I get relatively the same sound with any of them.

But it is still fun to try to emulate our bass heroes by using some of the same equipment that they do, just because it's fun, not really for any other reason. Just my .02.

You may be one of those players who imposes their sound on an instrument. Not all do. I sound very different on every bass I play, but i have a friend who sounds pretty much the same regardless. I can tell you that when playing a Fender for instance I sound absolutely nothing like I do on a Ric, and i's not just my opinion; my bandmates recently told me to dump a P Bass because of how bad I sounded using it compared to my Rics. That's not to say everyone would, but I did.

 

[melt]

Funny you mention Buddy Rich. When I was in high school in Dedham,Ma. (small town just outside of Boston) I had a music theory teacher who had music industry connections from his touring days. He arranged to book Buddy Rich to play a show with his band in our school auditorium one night. Students got first choice tickets and then it sold out to the public like wild fire. My teacher urged me to not miss this historic event or I would one day kick myself. I thought "how big a deal could it be if this guy has time to play at my stupid school, besides there was probably a keg party down the woods that night!"....Well kick myself I did!!! This was 1985-86 he died in 1987. Doooohhh!!

I did a similar thing with Bon Scott unfortunately. Got to see Buddy twice though. Greatest musician I ever saw, and a drummer to boot!

 

[melt]

Oh man, give yourself a kick for me as well!
I was so lucky to see these great people. There is a "theme" park in Toronto called Ontario Place. They used to have an outdoor concert stage in the round where the stage would actually revolve during the show. The concerts were free, with the price of admission, which back in the 70's and early 80', was about $3.00!!!
That's where I saw so many of these great jazz artists. Don't get me wrong, I went to a LOT of rock shows back then as well. One that still stands out is seeing Thin Lizzy open for Queen in the late 70's. Thin Lizzy is one of my fave all time bands
I wish I was with Rush back then when Thin Lizzy was their opening act in the UK.

Russ, Lizzy are the reason I play in a band in the first place....love 'em!