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Genz Benz Neo Pak 3.5
- Thread starter i_got_a_mohawk
- Start date
Reread these posts. The bag does NOT come with the head unless it's a promotional item. I had to purchase my bag separately, and was very happy to do so.
After much playing with the Neo-Pak, I've settled for just running the preamp volume at 10, and making volume adjustments with the master.
The Neo-Pak manual doesn't offer much specific guidance on how the preamp volume control is supposed to be used. It does state generally that the input gain and the preamp volume are to be used together. It says set the input gain to flash red on the loudest/hardest notes, and then adjust the preamp volume accordingly.
Can you Genz guys offer some insight into how to set the preamp volume? Is leaving it at 10 all the time ok?
I would suggest running the channel volume at 12 o'clock or less. I assume by "10" that you are running it wide open. That's very hot, and when if I were to run my channel volume that hot, then I would barely be able to turn my master volume up. I usually put my channel volume somewhere around 11 o'clock, which will let me run the master around 12 o'clock with some light flashing on the output clip indicator.
Chef
In Memoriam
Here's from the manual, if you didn't have it:
INPUT – The NEO-PAK 3.5 is equipped with a standard ¼” unbalanced input. Input sensitivity can be switched from
approximately 300 mV to 1.25 volt. The input impedance is 500k ohms. The precision input scaling preamp contains
a 36 Hz, 12 dB/octave high pass fi lter (more effective and less intrusive than the more common 6 dB fi lters) and an
“RFI” fi lter (radio frequency interference) to eliminate unwanted noise. The input gain stage consists of a feedback
type circuit that provides continuously variable gain with minimal noise. The input preamp contains 12AX7 tube
circuitry based on our highly regarded GBE series touring amplifi ers.
PASSIVE/ACTIVE SWITCH – The NEO-PAK 3.5 input stage is equipped with a “passive-active” switch that
optimizes the gain for different pickup types. The active switch engages a -10db pad to the input signal. If your bass
uses a battery then it is an active type pick-up and will yield best performance with the switch in the Active position.
INPUT SIGNAL MUTE SWITCH – With this mute switch, you can place the amplifi er (and Direct Output) in standby
mode between sets, without having to change any of your amp settings. This feature can also be used for silent
tuning since the Tuner Out stays active when the mute is engaged. A red LED indicates when the Mute is active.
PREAMP GAIN CONTROL – This control sets the input sensitivity gain of the preamp to the output of your bass.
The volume of the signal is then controlled by the Tube Preamp Volume control and also the Master Volume control.
If the red overload “OL” LED fl ashes, the tube preamp stage is being overdriven. To retain a clean tone, increase
the Preamp and or Master Volume controls and reduce the Preamp Gain control to eliminate input preamp overload.
Note that overdriving the input tube gain stage may be a desirable tonal characteristic of your playing style. This
control, in conjunction with the Preamp/Master Volume controls, allows you to set the amount of tube overdrive your
amp produces. The gain control should be set so that the O/L LED fl ashes with the hardest notes played.
“O/L” LED – This “Over-load” LED shows the operating status of the preamp stage. When this LED fl ashes,
overdriving of the input gain stages is occurring. Adjusting the Preamp Gain and Volume controls will affect the
over-load condition.
PREAMP VOLUME CONTROL – This control sets the volume of the preamp after the Input and Tube Gain stages
and before the Master Volume control. Use this control in conjunction with the Gain Control.
SETTING YOUR INPUT SIGNAL – Use the following guidelines to set your amplifi er input stage for the type of bass
used and your personal playing style.
1) Select either Active or Passive input gain depending upon the bass used.
2) Set your instruments controls (volume and tone) where you normally prefer to run them.
3) With the Channel Gain setting at “0” and your amplifi er EQ positions centered at 12 o’clock, begin turning
the gain control up to a level in which the O/L LED is illuminating with your hardest notes played. It is okay
for the RED LED to fl ash consistently BUT it should not be on constantly. Now set your channel volume and
master volume settings for the desired output level (loudness) that you wish to produce.
4) Now, turn your attention to the EQ section and make the adjustments for the desired tone. Because this is
an active EQ network any large settings of cut or boost will affect the gain level of the preamp and the O/L
lights at the input stage.
5) After setting your EQ it may be necessary to go back and adjust your input gain level accordingly. It should
be noted that the Global Signal Shape circuits will not affect the input gain BUT will affect the Master output
level and clip indicator if used with extreme settings.
INPUT – The NEO-PAK 3.5 is equipped with a standard ¼” unbalanced input. Input sensitivity can be switched from
approximately 300 mV to 1.25 volt. The input impedance is 500k ohms. The precision input scaling preamp contains
a 36 Hz, 12 dB/octave high pass fi lter (more effective and less intrusive than the more common 6 dB fi lters) and an
“RFI” fi lter (radio frequency interference) to eliminate unwanted noise. The input gain stage consists of a feedback
type circuit that provides continuously variable gain with minimal noise. The input preamp contains 12AX7 tube
circuitry based on our highly regarded GBE series touring amplifi ers.
PASSIVE/ACTIVE SWITCH – The NEO-PAK 3.5 input stage is equipped with a “passive-active” switch that
optimizes the gain for different pickup types. The active switch engages a -10db pad to the input signal. If your bass
uses a battery then it is an active type pick-up and will yield best performance with the switch in the Active position.
INPUT SIGNAL MUTE SWITCH – With this mute switch, you can place the amplifi er (and Direct Output) in standby
mode between sets, without having to change any of your amp settings. This feature can also be used for silent
tuning since the Tuner Out stays active when the mute is engaged. A red LED indicates when the Mute is active.
PREAMP GAIN CONTROL – This control sets the input sensitivity gain of the preamp to the output of your bass.
The volume of the signal is then controlled by the Tube Preamp Volume control and also the Master Volume control.
If the red overload “OL” LED fl ashes, the tube preamp stage is being overdriven. To retain a clean tone, increase
the Preamp and or Master Volume controls and reduce the Preamp Gain control to eliminate input preamp overload.
Note that overdriving the input tube gain stage may be a desirable tonal characteristic of your playing style. This
control, in conjunction with the Preamp/Master Volume controls, allows you to set the amount of tube overdrive your
amp produces. The gain control should be set so that the O/L LED fl ashes with the hardest notes played.
“O/L” LED – This “Over-load” LED shows the operating status of the preamp stage. When this LED fl ashes,
overdriving of the input gain stages is occurring. Adjusting the Preamp Gain and Volume controls will affect the
over-load condition.
PREAMP VOLUME CONTROL – This control sets the volume of the preamp after the Input and Tube Gain stages
and before the Master Volume control. Use this control in conjunction with the Gain Control.
SETTING YOUR INPUT SIGNAL – Use the following guidelines to set your amplifi er input stage for the type of bass
used and your personal playing style.
1) Select either Active or Passive input gain depending upon the bass used.
2) Set your instruments controls (volume and tone) where you normally prefer to run them.
3) With the Channel Gain setting at “0” and your amplifi er EQ positions centered at 12 o’clock, begin turning
the gain control up to a level in which the O/L LED is illuminating with your hardest notes played. It is okay
for the RED LED to fl ash consistently BUT it should not be on constantly. Now set your channel volume and
master volume settings for the desired output level (loudness) that you wish to produce.
4) Now, turn your attention to the EQ section and make the adjustments for the desired tone. Because this is
an active EQ network any large settings of cut or boost will affect the gain level of the preamp and the O/L
lights at the input stage.
5) After setting your EQ it may be necessary to go back and adjust your input gain level accordingly. It should
be noted that the Global Signal Shape circuits will not affect the input gain BUT will affect the Master output
level and clip indicator if used with extreme settings.
I'm closing this thread (and deleting several unhelpful posts) to prevent it turning into a whinge fest like the other one. It might interest some of you to know that in my experience infractions for CUP violations are usually issued as a result of direct complaints from TB members. One person's innocent post by someone who works for his favourite gear manufacturer is another's plug that turns the forum into a free ad campaign. Not referring to anyone in particular here, just saying what generally happens.
When you sign up to TB you agree to go along with the rules and policies here - if you want to take issue with this, a public thread isn't the place to do so. Any comments on the CUP or its interpretation should be addressed to the mods for the forum concerned or directly to Paul if you're not happy with their response.
EDIT Okay, by request I'm unlocking this thread as it was going rather nicely before this little blow up. If you'd like to comment about the CUP and have a discussion with Paul and other members about how this issue should be handled, please contribute to the thread in the suggestion box:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325585
When you sign up to TB you agree to go along with the rules and policies here - if you want to take issue with this, a public thread isn't the place to do so. Any comments on the CUP or its interpretation should be addressed to the mods for the forum concerned or directly to Paul if you're not happy with their response.
EDIT Okay, by request I'm unlocking this thread as it was going rather nicely before this little blow up. If you'd like to comment about the CUP and have a discussion with Paul and other members about how this issue should be handled, please contribute to the thread in the suggestion box:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325585
I played the NeoPak for the first time yesterday... I have to say that my band and I are playing LOUD and I run the amp at 8 ohms/225w.
It sounded AWESOME ! But I have a question... (Please note I plugged a Warwick Streamer LX -very powerful, with active pickups- in the amp, with a Fulltone Bass Drive -adds some gain-)
I set up the input gain at 11 o'clock, the preamp volume at 11 o'clock, and the Master Volume at 2 o'clock. With these settings, it sounded great and full, BUT the CLIP/LIMIT LED kept shining... (I used the Limiter too).
What can I do to avoid the CLIP/LIMIT LED from lighting ?
Should I turn up the O/L (Preamp) volume and turn down the Master volume ?
Is there any risk of damaging the Power amp with that clipping?
It sounded AWESOME ! But I have a question... (Please note I plugged a Warwick Streamer LX -very powerful, with active pickups- in the amp, with a Fulltone Bass Drive -adds some gain-)
I set up the input gain at 11 o'clock, the preamp volume at 11 o'clock, and the Master Volume at 2 o'clock. With these settings, it sounded great and full, BUT the CLIP/LIMIT LED kept shining... (I used the Limiter too).
What can I do to avoid the CLIP/LIMIT LED from lighting ?
Should I turn up the O/L (Preamp) volume and turn down the Master volume ?
Is there any risk of damaging the Power amp with that clipping?
Maybe your clipping the preamp section? Its just a guess, seeing your adding in gain from the Fulltone
Nope, the O/L LED (indicating the preamp clipping) barely clipped.
I'm talking about the CLIP/LIMIT LED of the power amp/limiter section...
I'm talking about the CLIP/LIMIT LED of the power amp/limiter section...
Ian - two things:
1) Make sure the input gain is set correctly. It needs to occasionally flash red with your loudest notes.
2) Watch turning up the bass EQ and using the low boost. Those can both get you into the clip zone at higher volume settings, such as the one you reported using.
Although I've experimented running the amp preamp volume at 10, it seems happiest somewhere around 5-6.
It also sounds like you are running the master volume pretty high. The limiter is doing its job for you.
You may want to pick up a second cab and run the Neo-Pak 350 watts at 4 ohms with more cone area. 225 watts with one cabinet is probably not ideal for a loud rock band.
Bill- thank you for reopening the thread!
This is such a fine head, I was going to start a new thread if need be..
I continue to be impressed with the sound of the head, through a variety of cabinets. I've tried it now with an EA M-Line Wizzy 12, one or both of the Bag End S15 cabs, and my Sonic Micromini 18 with EVM-18B. All sound great with this guy.
I changed out the pressurewound strings on my XZ-2 for some GHS roundwounds this weekend, and now I'm truly hearing the impressive tone of the Neo-Pak. Wow!
I'd like to see a frequency response curve for the Neo-Pak. The head sounds like it has a very neutral, flat sound that is true to the actual tone of the bass being used.
This is such a fine head, I was going to start a new thread if need be..
I continue to be impressed with the sound of the head, through a variety of cabinets. I've tried it now with an EA M-Line Wizzy 12, one or both of the Bag End S15 cabs, and my Sonic Micromini 18 with EVM-18B. All sound great with this guy.
I changed out the pressurewound strings on my XZ-2 for some GHS roundwounds this weekend, and now I'm truly hearing the impressive tone of the Neo-Pak. Wow!
I'd like to see a frequency response curve for the Neo-Pak. The head sounds like it has a very neutral, flat sound that is true to the actual tone of the bass being used.
Chef- Thanks for posting the relevant section of the Neo-Pak manual. I do have a copy of it that came with the head, and G-B also has a PDF manual on their website.
Unfortunately, the manual doesn't explain the gain stack with precision. That's why I have continued to experiment with the setting for preamp volume. It does interact with the preamp gain control- turn up the gain for more tube drive, turn down the volume to achieve the same volume with the same master volume setting- etc., but the manual is not clear on how to do this other than by ear. That's why I was hoping the Genz guys could clarify it here. Alas..
The preamp volume has a familial design connection to the two channel preamp used in the GBE 750 and 1200. There, the volume makes more sense, since it allows the player to balance solid state and tube channel volumes. It's less obvious how to use it in a one channel head.
1/ The low boost wasn't activated, my bass's EQ was flat.
2/ I run the head thru a Nemesis 4x10" cab, it's more than enough for the moment... Plus I ain't got the money for a second cab yet...
How many oms or how much wattage doesn't tell me much. How many drivers where you using? A single driver cabinet is not going to get very loud, and you'll wind up clipping the head in an attempt to get more volume. If I use my Neo-Pak with my 212, it's plenty loud. I can add the 112, and it gets even louder. It has little to do with the increased wattage, and everything to do with more drivers.
Ah, sorry. Okay, then. My thoughts. If I setup the gain on my Neo-pak so that I get some flashing on the lower, more aggressive notes along with the channel volume around 11'oclock, I will get O/L clipping when I put the master around noon. If I ran my master at 2 o'clock like you are, I would be pushing the head much too hard and begging for problems.
The only thing you can really do to get around this is turn down the lows, which is what consumes most of the power in any head. Another thing you can do is add a compressor to help eventhings out a bit and tame the lower notes, but it has side effects all it's own.
Also, why are you you running the Fulltone? You mentioned it adds some gain. Is that all you're after is more gain? Sounds like you have plenty of room left to up the gain on the Neo-pak. That setup would also raise the noise level a bit, which probably isn't an issue playing live.
Lastly, 225 watts isn't very much to put into a 410. That's only about 56 watts per driver. Still, it should be fairly loud, but I doubt that's enough wattage to really open up the drivers. If you're having volume issues and causing clipping, it sounds like you just need more power.
Here's an example for you. I have the Neox-212T, which is a 4 ohm cab rated at 600 watts. With my Neo-pak driving it at 350 watts, it's loud enough for most gigs. When I really want power, I push it with my GBE 1200 at 1000 watts. Now, the 1200 pushing it is just somewhat noticeably louder, but I do mean just noticeably. There isn't a huge volume increase in going from 350 watts to 1000 watts. What I do notice very easily is the additional headroom. No clipping on the head whatsoever, even if I choose to boost the bass up a bit and make things really rumble. If I try to do that with the Neo-pak, then it sucks the headroom out of amp and it starts flashing the clip light, which isn't that big of a deal. I just have to be careful not to go any harder. The moral of my story is that there is just very little you can do to replace headroom. A 410 should get extremely loud if driven properly. It sounds like you just have a classic case of not bringing enough power to cover your gig. Either that or you have a classic case of "everyone needs to turn down cause they're playing to freakin' loud".
To reiterate something, a flashing O/L clip light doesn't mean you have problems. It just means you are approaching the amplifiers maximum output level. The thing to watch out for visually is the light staying on for more than a quick flash. Even better is to listen for audible break-up coming from the cabinet.
The only thing you can really do to get around this is turn down the lows, which is what consumes most of the power in any head. Another thing you can do is add a compressor to help eventhings out a bit and tame the lower notes, but it has side effects all it's own.
Also, why are you you running the Fulltone? You mentioned it adds some gain. Is that all you're after is more gain? Sounds like you have plenty of room left to up the gain on the Neo-pak. That setup would also raise the noise level a bit, which probably isn't an issue playing live.
Lastly, 225 watts isn't very much to put into a 410. That's only about 56 watts per driver. Still, it should be fairly loud, but I doubt that's enough wattage to really open up the drivers. If you're having volume issues and causing clipping, it sounds like you just need more power.
Here's an example for you. I have the Neox-212T, which is a 4 ohm cab rated at 600 watts. With my Neo-pak driving it at 350 watts, it's loud enough for most gigs. When I really want power, I push it with my GBE 1200 at 1000 watts. Now, the 1200 pushing it is just somewhat noticeably louder, but I do mean just noticeably. There isn't a huge volume increase in going from 350 watts to 1000 watts. What I do notice very easily is the additional headroom. No clipping on the head whatsoever, even if I choose to boost the bass up a bit and make things really rumble. If I try to do that with the Neo-pak, then it sucks the headroom out of amp and it starts flashing the clip light, which isn't that big of a deal. I just have to be careful not to go any harder. The moral of my story is that there is just very little you can do to replace headroom. A 410 should get extremely loud if driven properly. It sounds like you just have a classic case of not bringing enough power to cover your gig. Either that or you have a classic case of "everyone needs to turn down cause they're playing to freakin' loud".
To reiterate something, a flashing O/L clip light doesn't mean you have problems. It just means you are approaching the amplifiers maximum output level. The thing to watch out for visually is the light staying on for more than a quick flash. Even better is to listen for audible break-up coming from the cabinet.
From my understanding and experience, the red clip light is designed to come on WAYYYY before the amp starts to clip. I have the red light blink on occasionally on my GBE750--at first, it worried me, but now I just ignore it. I have never once heard the amp come close to sounding like it was clipping.
FWIW, I just recently spent some more time with a Neo Pak head at my local store. If I had the extra cash laying around right now, I would be all over it. These really are great sounding little heads.
FWIW, I just recently spent some more time with a Neo Pak head at my local store. If I had the extra cash laying around right now, I would be all over it. These really are great sounding little heads.
The only thing you can really do to get around this is turn down the lows, which is what consumes most of the power in any head. Another thing you can do is add a compressor to help eventhings out a bit and tame the lower notes, but it has side effects all it's own.
I don't really like compressors. I already had one, got rid of it a few weeks ago. Turn down the lows? My bass is very mid rangy... If I turn down the lows, I'm gonna lost all my low-end.
Also, why are you you running the Fulltone? You mentioned it adds some gain. Is that all you're after is more gain? Sounds like you have plenty of room left to up the gain on the Neo-pak. That setup would also raise the noise level a bit, which probably isn't an issue playing live.
I'm not after gain, I'm after the drive ! That pedal is an overdrive, it adds some drive, some grit to my sound, makes it beefier, growlier, without sucking any frequencies out of my bass ! It's part of my sound.
Lastly, 225 watts isn't very much to put into a 410. That's only about 56 watts per driver. Still, it should be fairly loud, but I doubt that's enough wattage to really open up the drivers. If you're having volume issues and causing clipping, it sounds like you just need more power.
I see what you mean, but I can't get another cab for now... If I get another 4x10, then 350/8= 43w per driver !!!
To reiterate something, a flashing O/L clip light doesn't mean you have problems. It just means you are approaching the amplifiers maximum output level. The thing to watch out for visually is the light staying on for more than a quick flash. Even better is to listen for audible break-up coming from the cabinet.
My main concern is not the O/L clip light (preamp) but the CLIP/LIMIT led (power amp/limiter) !
I don't really like compressors. I already had one, got rid of it a few weeks ago. Turn down the lows? My bass is very mid rangy... If I turn down the lows, I'm gonna lost all my low-end.
Also, why are you you running the Fulltone? You mentioned it adds some gain. Is that all you're after is more gain? Sounds like you have plenty of room left to up the gain on the Neo-pak. That setup would also raise the noise level a bit, which probably isn't an issue playing live.
I'm not after gain, I'm after the drive ! That pedal is an overdrive, it adds some drive, some grit to my sound, makes it beefier, growlier, without sucking any frequencies out of my bass ! It's part of my sound.
Lastly, 225 watts isn't very much to put into a 410. That's only about 56 watts per driver. Still, it should be fairly loud, but I doubt that's enough wattage to really open up the drivers. If you're having volume issues and causing clipping, it sounds like you just need more power.
I see what you mean, but I can't get another cab for now... If I get another 4x10, then 350/8= 43w per driver !!!
To reiterate something, a flashing O/L clip light doesn't mean you have problems. It just means you are approaching the amplifiers maximum output level. The thing to watch out for visually is the light staying on for more than a quick flash. Even better is to listen for audible break-up coming from the cabinet.
My main concern is not the O/L clip light (preamp) but the CLIP/LIMIT led (power amp/limiter) !
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