Which 210 are you getting, and for what purpose? To use stand-alone, or in combo with another cab? Will you be using with the SL900?
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Genz Benz Streamliner Part 3!!!!
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Which 210 are you getting, and for what purpose? To use stand-alone, or in combo with another cab? Will you be using with the SL900?
I know I asked this before, but now that more of these heads are out, maybe someone can answer it.
How close can you get in tone to the Streamliner by working with EQ and gain on the Shuttle 9.0? Obviously the preamps are different and the feel may still be different, but can you get close? I haven't seen much done with either of these heads with much EQ. Most comparisons are with flat EQs. I have a Shuttle 9.0 and with a bit of bass boost and 2K mid cut and the input gain cranked pretty high it will sound more Ampegish. Thoughts?
How close can you get in tone to the Streamliner by working with EQ and gain on the Shuttle 9.0? Obviously the preamps are different and the feel may still be different, but can you get close? I haven't seen much done with either of these heads with much EQ. Most comparisons are with flat EQs. I have a Shuttle 9.0 and with a bit of bass boost and 2K mid cut and the input gain cranked pretty high it will sound more Ampegish. Thoughts?
@ Joe..I have A SM 12.0 so not sure how helpful this will be, but the Streamliner is a very different beast IMO..more "chewy" a lot more give and responsiveness to touch and much more variety of OD tones..based on my brief time with the SL so far..
Cool. I thought that might be the case.
So... if I'm understanding correctly-
1)the purpose of the 3DPM module is not just limiting, but also to make the amp respond more like a tube amp
2)So if you aren't playing loud enough or pushing the 900 to hit the 3DPM hard, perhaps pushing the 600 to hit the 3DPM harder/earlier could give more "tube-like action"
Maybe??
Really looking forward to hearing one of these in person.....
Corner Music here in Nashville didn't know when they might be getting some in.
Originally Posted by hasbeen:
it won't act "differently"...other than with the 600, it will affect your tone and feel sooner than with the 900.
Originally Posted by Kirkowitz:
Cool. I thought that might be the case.
So... if I'm understanding correctly-
1)the purpose of the 3DPM module is not just limiting, but also to make the amp respond more like a tube amp
2)So if you aren't playing loud enough or pushing the 900 to hit the 3DPM hard, perhaps pushing the 600 to hit the 3DPM harder/earlier could give more "tube-like action"
I wonder about this also.
I have a SL 900 on order.
I generally play at low volumes. Often in my living room. Gigging in small venues: coffee houses, yoga studios, churches. Rarely large venues. When large, I have full FOH support. In addition, I mostly play world music so no screaming guitars or full drum trap sets.
Should I switch my order to the 600 in order to get the most of the full tube sound at these lower volumes ?
it won't act "differently"...other than with the 600, it will affect your tone and feel sooner than with the 900.
Originally Posted by Kirkowitz:
Cool. I thought that might be the case.
So... if I'm understanding correctly-
1)the purpose of the 3DPM module is not just limiting, but also to make the amp respond more like a tube amp
2)So if you aren't playing loud enough or pushing the 900 to hit the 3DPM hard, perhaps pushing the 600 to hit the 3DPM harder/earlier could give more "tube-like action"
I wonder about this also.
I have a SL 900 on order.
I generally play at low volumes. Often in my living room. Gigging in small venues: coffee houses, yoga studios, churches. Rarely large venues. When large, I have full FOH support. In addition, I mostly play world music so no screaming guitars or full drum trap sets.
Should I switch my order to the 600 in order to get the most of the full tube sound at these lower volumes ?
svtb15
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- Mar 22, 2004
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The Uber210.. for rehearsals and small things around town .. but greg at Rocket music posted a clip of his Uber115 and it sounds real full , and clear.. not muddy at all... so that is another choice for e a stand alone small gig rig too.. and yes. I would use the SL900 or my Shuttle 9... The 9 is just a great all around amp.. but im digging the width of the Streamliner.. Its wide and deep sounding.. Nice open top end when you run it clean..
hasbeen
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yes...hitting the "back end" of the 600 will give a tube-like feel sooner than the 900 will.
Keep in mind that some of the tube amp feel comes from the pre as well.
Good. I'm glad someone else has been wondering about this too... I don't know, it may be a silly question or I could be completely misunderstanding the things I've read about how the 3DPM affects the sound.
This from the Genz Benz website makes me think more is better...
"Along with our preamp design, that rivals that of many classic tube amplifiers, the STREAMLER also features our proprietary 3 Dimensional Power Management analog technology. Our 3DPM adds heft and girth to each individual note, while enhancing the amplifiers responsiveness and headroom. It provides the dynamic and 3 dimensional tone and feel of an all tube power amp design."
Ok. Thanks for the response. I was leaning toward the 600 anyway because it should be plenty for me....
and I like hitting the back end.
Just noticed the typo in the quote from the G-B website I quoted.. "STREAMLER"
That bit of proof-reading should be good for a .50 off coupon..
Just heard from my local shop (Red Dirt Brothers Guitars) that along with my SL900, they have four more, a few SL600's, and Shuttle 9.0/12.0's in stock!!! Now if I can only cook up a scheme to leave work early!!!!
ElMon said:
What is his price? Are prices fairly consistent? Are they matching Ye Olde in Raleigh?
Cool. I thought that might be the case.
So... if I'm understanding correctly-
1)the purpose of the 3DPM module is not just limiting, but also to make the amp respond more like a tube amp
2)So if you aren't playing loud enough or pushing the 900 to hit the 3DPM hard, perhaps pushing the 600 to hit the 3DPM harder/earlier could give more "tube-like action"
Maybe??
Really looking forward to hearing one of these in person.....
Corner Music here in Nashville didn't know when they might be getting some in.
I'm still not decided on the pros and cons between the 600 and 900 for some situations. If you are going to run the amp at 4 ohm and need to crank, then the 900 is a no brainer. If you are going to run it at 8 ohms a significant amount of time or you play at low to moderate volumes, that's when it gets debatable. Some say always go for more power and take advantage of the extra headroom and what that means to dynamics and tone. Additionally, the 900 will let you run the amp at 500 watts at 8 ohms compared to 375 for SL600. Now there seems to be an advantage to hitting the "back end" of the amp sooner if you play at lower volumes. This sounds like an advantage for less headroom.
What if a 6 turned out to be 9...
I'm still not decided on the pros and cons between the 600 and 900 for some situations. If you are going to run the amp at 4 ohm and need to crank, then the 900 is a no brainer. If you are going to run it at 8 ohms a significant amount of time or you play at low to moderate volumes, that's when it gets debatable. Some say always go for more power and take advantage of the extra headroom and what that means to dynamics and tone. Additionally, the 900 will let you run the amp at 500 watts at 8 ohms compared to 375 for SL600. Now there seems to be an advantage to hitting the "back end" of the amp sooner if you play at lower volumes. This sounds like an advantage for less headroom.
I'm running 2 cabs at 8ohms for a total of 420 watts. I ordered the 600 and I'll obviously be pushing 375 to them. I guess maybe a noob to a lot of this watts ohms and mixing and matching. But would someone really buy a 900 for my setup? Isn't pushing 500 watts to what I would be using bad?
But it sounds like people do this. I guess I'm thinking now I only put like 200 watts into this setup and it gets loud as hell. Or am I understanding this all wrong?
If you're running two 8 ohm cabs, you then have a 4 ohm load and can tap into the full 600 watts. For me, it would be nice to have 500 watts at 8 ohms, headroom and all that. This back-end, 3D bit makes me re-think it.
Its also been said the 600 and the 900 are more similar than different so I wouldn't over think things. If it were me (and it will be soon) and I were running a single 4ohm cab the 600 seems like a good fit, or 2 low powered 8ohm cabs. If I needed a lot of volume out of an 8ohm cab(fearful and variants) or the cab wasn't terribly efficient (Acme) than I'd roll with the 900.
I would think from what I'm seeing here that the majority of players in real-world gigs in bars, churches, gigs with good PA support, and so on, would be able to gig with the 600 adequately as well as the 900, for less money.
Side track for a little bit of complaining: Actually, if we wait 9 months to a year, GB will introduce still another latest greatest model, and we could all buy the Streamliners for less used than buying them new. If I were to buy a Streamliner, I'd have to sell my Shuttle 9.0, I paid Greg at Rocket nearly $800 shipped for it, and I'd pay him around that for a SL900, and I could only get $500ish for the Shuttle 9.0 shipped. That's reality, folks. If you've got unlimited money to spend on boutique basses and amps, regardless of the kind of money you are making on gigs, then heck yes, go for the latest greatest of everything.
Yes, there are some reasons that people are buying these Streamliners now, but are they levels of magnitude better than the Shuttles? No. Those are some seriously nice amplifiers.
Back on topic- If we had a choice between a 600 and a 1200 in the Streamliner models, perhaps it would make a difference. But again, if amps are properly designed, do most bassists need 1200 watts nowadays? No. Some do. Most don't.
I think Genz went with the designs that they could produce with the amp modules they have access to. I'm not convinced, from what has been posted here on Talkbass by anyone, that the 900 is superior for most gigging bassists these days over the 600.
Most of us nowadays are not playing in gig situations, with the cabinets we have access to in 2011, that require an additional 300 watts. Also, with Genz's fabulous amp limiting, taken some theoretical step further with this 3DPM stuff, the 600 watts should be way more than adequate.
I'm cracking up thinking about how all those poor bassists gigged for all those years with SVT heads. They weren't 900 or even 600 watt heads. I've gigged for years in years past with 1200-2400 watt preamp/power amp rigs and I never turned those up to max.
I had a Neo-Pak 3.5 and a Shuttle 6.0, and currently have a Shuttle 9.0, and I never turned any of those heads way up- they were all very powerful, and they were more than adequate with the speakers I used for some pretty danged loud gigs I played in those years past.
I don't have any particular reason for saying all this other than to just clarify that probably most players don't need more than 600 watts, with the advanced designs that Andy is building into their products.
I love Genz-Benz amplifiers, I'll use them to the end of my gigging days, and I also cheerfully affirm that mine is only one opinion.
Side track for a little bit of complaining: Actually, if we wait 9 months to a year, GB will introduce still another latest greatest model, and we could all buy the Streamliners for less used than buying them new. If I were to buy a Streamliner, I'd have to sell my Shuttle 9.0, I paid Greg at Rocket nearly $800 shipped for it, and I'd pay him around that for a SL900, and I could only get $500ish for the Shuttle 9.0 shipped. That's reality, folks. If you've got unlimited money to spend on boutique basses and amps, regardless of the kind of money you are making on gigs, then heck yes, go for the latest greatest of everything.
Yes, there are some reasons that people are buying these Streamliners now, but are they levels of magnitude better than the Shuttles? No. Those are some seriously nice amplifiers.
Back on topic- If we had a choice between a 600 and a 1200 in the Streamliner models, perhaps it would make a difference. But again, if amps are properly designed, do most bassists need 1200 watts nowadays? No. Some do. Most don't.
I think Genz went with the designs that they could produce with the amp modules they have access to. I'm not convinced, from what has been posted here on Talkbass by anyone, that the 900 is superior for most gigging bassists these days over the 600.
Most of us nowadays are not playing in gig situations, with the cabinets we have access to in 2011, that require an additional 300 watts. Also, with Genz's fabulous amp limiting, taken some theoretical step further with this 3DPM stuff, the 600 watts should be way more than adequate.
I'm cracking up thinking about how all those poor bassists gigged for all those years with SVT heads. They weren't 900 or even 600 watt heads. I've gigged for years in years past with 1200-2400 watt preamp/power amp rigs and I never turned those up to max.
I had a Neo-Pak 3.5 and a Shuttle 6.0, and currently have a Shuttle 9.0, and I never turned any of those heads way up- they were all very powerful, and they were more than adequate with the speakers I used for some pretty danged loud gigs I played in those years past.
I don't have any particular reason for saying all this other than to just clarify that probably most players don't need more than 600 watts, with the advanced designs that Andy is building into their products.
I love Genz-Benz amplifiers, I'll use them to the end of my gigging days, and I also cheerfully affirm that mine is only one opinion.
Well I went with the 600. Like I said I have the 2 cabs rated together at 420w not much but they do get stupid loud with not much pushing them. I'll be sure to at least put a comparison of the Hartke HA with the 1 tube pre and the SL. I'm sure the SL will kill the Hartke but I love the tone I can get from the Hartke, I'm just so intrigued to here what 3 of these little 12 tubes can produce.
You certainly complained there
I, like many others, bought a Streamliner because it has a very tube-ish tone (which I have been seeking for a couple of years now) arguably unmatched by anything else in the 6 lb. range, and I know that I bought a 900 because I practice loud for the feel of it, regularly gig on big stages, and like to have plenty of clean power on tap. Certainly some buy to get the "latest and greatest", but this particular product, built by a company with a track record of quality products and known for top-flight service, fills a rather empty niche that a lot of players have been interested in. It has nothing to do with being "better" than Shuttles - it has to do with being different in a way that many people are excited about. Kudos to you for loving your 9.0, which is certainly a fantastic piece of gear, but while the SL at this moment isn't for you, it could very well be right for many others
The one thing you may be overlooking is the new breed of cabinets utilizing the 3012lf or 3015lf drivers that require a fair amount of current to perform at their potential (more than the 600 would provide). They are currently available only in 8ohm form (with the exception of the Avatar TB153 and Duke's Thunderchild).
In addition to those cabinets, most single driver cabinets are far less efficient than multiple driver cabinets. If you want to run 2 single 12's or 2 single 15's, the headroom a 900w amp provides is a great thing (not necessary, but nice) if you know how to use it (keep the bass boost in check).
However, not being able to get the most out of the 3DPM section of the 900w amp needs to be in people's minds when making purchasing decisions.
These generalizations about "most" players only needing 600 watts is extremely short sighted given the range of cabinets available and the amount of power needed to effectively communicate the range of a 5-string bass.
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