ya, i so don't get the "throttle small/medium cabs with 10,000 watts" thing that's pretty prevalent on here, but that seems to be how the business is shaking out.
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Genz Benz Streamliner; Part 4
- Thread starter Chef
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I'll agree that I don't get people who want always test the limits of small cabinets, but there's a definitely appeal to getting loud when you do know that a cabinet can take it. I'd rather deal with smaller numbers of speakers with less dispersion issues if it can meet volume demands - of course, this is all complicated by the multiway designs, which seem to be the cabinets that can take the wattage and make use of it (with the 3012/3015LF and variants).
MikeBass...good call on the NeoX 212T. I have also been asked to turn mine down in big rooms as well. 1 is plenty for me as well.
MikeBass
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I would think an SL900 with a 4 ohm NeoX 212 would be plenty for most gigs unless there is no FOH system. I've got a Shuttle Max 12.0 with the Uber 410/212 stack and have yet to play a gig where I need both cabs. I suppose if you have the $$$ and really want to wreak mayhem you could buy a pair of NeoX 212's and a 2nd SL900, using the effects send to drive the 2nd amp.
MikeBass - I caught some of your act at the Blue Goose online last night about 10:15. Nice tone and a good funky groove. It looked like a good time was had by all. Was the SL900 or the Shuttle 9.0 used for your 1st set?
Thanks for checking it out!
That was my 9.0. The sound quality wasn't the best so Ken and I just kinda nix'd the idea.
But it was just the 9.0 thru my Bag End co-ax 15. And by the end of the night, we were LOUD!
You know how it is Jimmy, just a matter of headroom.
Plus, it's having maybe one head, and a number of cabs in different configurations to be able to cover a multitude of gigs.
I have a pair of 410's, a single 15 and others. I can pretty much cover any situation.
But really, a single 410 could do it all as well with nice FOH support for bigger gigs.
That being said, my old 400RB and 800RB, as "low powered" as they are, were plenty fine for any gig.
got nothing against small cabs, red. i just question the logic of wanting them to be 4 ohms when many of them can't even take what they can get out of their amp at 8 ohms.
mike, that may be, but the way i feel about it, if your cab taps out at the 200w mark and it's still got a plenty of clean headroom, adding more clean headroom isn't going to help.
mike, that may be, but the way i feel about it, if your cab taps out at the 200w mark and it's still got a plenty of clean headroom, adding more clean headroom isn't going to help.
Totally depends on the cabs and the head. 800 watt head at 8ohms, won't matter a bit. High sensitivity and at least moderate powered head, won't matter much either. Cheap driver that can't use much power, again, ditto.
Lower SPL cab with good mechanical specs, and/or a low powered head and/or a larger cab like a 212, and it can be a life changing experience.
Pretty simple when you understand the variables in question and how they relate to one another. There is no 'it does or doesn't matter' answer. As with most things, it depends.
MikeBass
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I hear ya Jimmy.
I just like to have it on tap if/when I need it.
If you dig into the cab, a 200 watt cab could "spec" out better than a 400 watt one. Not wanting to get into the ins and outs of all that, but I think you get my point.
But to tag onto where you are with it, a 400 watt 12 and a 200 watt 12 can really only go so loud before you just need more speaker(s). So no matter the power, at some point you're just not gonna get any louder.
Know what I mean?
Oh sorry I misunderstood.
Mine are 8 ohms.
I see the idea behind a 4 ohm 12 or 15 because most of the little Micro Amps don't really put out enough at 8 ohms. This is the same as what I get out of my Liner and Niner at 8 ohms (500 watts). All those little Micros would get way more headroom into a 4 ohm cab like Dukes cab.
Makes sense to me.
Or you could just get a Genz Benz and also be able to put the hammer down when you need it.
absolutely, and that's exactly my point. of course ken is right when he says "it depends"...that's a no brainer. but i just think somewhere along the line, you have to believe in physics and know when to say when. a lot of people just plain don't, and they're the ones always wanting 4 ohm small/medium cabs to get "full wattage" even when common sense would tell you they can't take it.
I agree.
There are situations where the amp runs out before the cab does.
I was using an LMIII into a Golight 2x10 and it would just turn to squishy mush when the band got loud and I needed a little more. With the same cab and a 900 watt Genz, it's just enough headroom to get me where I need to be and still be tight and solid with plenty of bottom in a tiny small cab.
It's such a pleasure.
TalkBass Physics said you cant be small, light, and loud, all at the same time. Genz Benz changed that whole dynamic.
sorry, but it's small, loud, and LOW that you can't have. there's a ton of small, light, and loud stuff out there. now add "low" and that's where physics steps in. and that's not talkbass physics...that's hoffman's iron law of speaker physics at work, and hoffman predates talkbass by a long amount of time.
Excuse me for stating it incorrectly and how low would you like it?
Genz has busted that rule.
Plug a Shuttle 9.0 into two BergHT112ER cabs, crank it, and giggle like a school girl.
Then plug the same amp into only one cab and giggle some more.
You pic the cab.
One of the Bergs works nice or a Golight 2x10 or for even more low a Golight 1x15.
Kaboom!!!!!!!!!
---Grabbing my ticket book----
Mr Red Planet, please step out of the vehicle, and keep your hands where I can see them.
Mr Red Planet, please step out of the vehicle, and keep your hands where I can see them.
neither genz benz nor bergantino have busted hoffman's iron law. the ht112er has small and loud covered, but with a lowest usable frequency of 40hz, it isn't particularly low at all. and andy from gb would be the first to tell you that none of gb's cabs have busted hoffman's iron law.
I think that law isn't really applicable here. There are plenty of cabs out there that aren't that heavy, have very good depth, and high perceived volumes. Genz, Bergs, and Epis come to mind, and I'm sure there are others. My SL600 and AE212 are small, around 60lbs combined(!), put out some massive lows, and as much volume as I need for any situation. When you start talking specs and efficiency (as the law is stated in) you're missing the point. It how it sounds on the gig that counts
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