I don't believe that's generally true. I think there are a lot of us who like and own both a Shuttle and Streamliner.
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Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 5
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I don't believe that's generally true. I think there are a lot of us who like and own both a Shuttle and Streamliner.
Jefe said:As an owner of a Berg NV610, a '76 SVT, and a STR900, (and a TB153 for those who care), yes the STR900 makes magic with that cab. Not as much magic as my old SVT, but magic nonetheless. The STR900 is not an old SVT, but it's still damn good IF you already like tube amps.
In reference to earlier posts, if were you were/are a fan of the Shuttle amps, you will likely be disappointed. It's amazing to me that people bought Streamliners with a previous dislike of tube amps and are now displeased with them. That just validates their design goals. If you disliked tube amps before, you will probably not like the Streamliner.
They did a good job!
Genz has done a fantastic job of replicating a Class A/B solid state amp with Class D technology with the Shuttle series. And they have done a fantastic job of replicating tube pre/power with tube/Class D tech in the Streamliner series.
The simple fact remains, there is SS and there is tube. Pick one, pick both, but NOTHING will do both in one box (yet).
This coming from a purely non-Genz fanboy. I like big cabs, tubes and tube overdrive. Genz has found a fan in me (reluctantly).
Having an amp that uses tubes has nothing to with it's voicing. It can still be voiced any number of ways. There are dozens of products on the market that illustrate this.
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- Apr 3, 2003
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This is all IME and IMHO, and YMMV and stuff, but I guess I would put the tone of my Navigator and my Shuttle 6.0 at fairly far apart (the Shuttle 9.0 is closer, and the ShuttleMAX 12.0 is maybe between the 6 and the 9 as far as how much it sounds like the Navigator), but I bet I could dial in a fairly similar tone to the Streamliner on my Navigator (though the feel would be different).
The only two heads I've ever used are a Hartke 3500 and a SWR Bass 750. I play rock with a Skyline JO and country with a usa cirrus 5. Is the S900 suited for both or should I get a 9.0 and use my VT pedal for the rock stuff? Seeing as I have never spent any time with a tube amp i'm wondering how I would like it.......Hmmmmmm. Also concerned with pairing the S900 with a ampeg 410HLF, considering the cabinets tuning and the amps "fatness". Could be a muddy mess.....
Just getting interested in Genz Benz and sorry I'm so late to the party, but I've read this whole section and hoped I could get a summary/comparison of the Shuttle vs. Streamliner.
Just a couple points:
1) Tone shaping differences?
2) Total character differences in live mix?
3) Any basic contrasts in a nutshell.
Sorry if this is moving backwards, but this has been a Mega thread and maybe a few people would appreciate a summary at this point.
FWIW, I started with an Acoustic B200, then to GK MB210, and now looking at the Ampeg PF500 and both the Shuttle and Streamliner. I like the thought of warm, round tone and play with both Fender P and J with Seymour QP's and Chromes.
Thanks for any input.
S
Just a couple points:
1) Tone shaping differences?
2) Total character differences in live mix?
3) Any basic contrasts in a nutshell.
Sorry if this is moving backwards, but this has been a Mega thread and maybe a few people would appreciate a summary at this point.
FWIW, I started with an Acoustic B200, then to GK MB210, and now looking at the Ampeg PF500 and both the Shuttle and Streamliner. I like the thought of warm, round tone and play with both Fender P and J with Seymour QP's and Chromes.
Thanks for any input.
S
I was using just one Uber Quad which is 8 ohms. That's right, I was only using 500 of the 900 watts.
But I actually sold off a bass, a Max12 and 2 cabs recently so I am "On the bus" as Mr. Kesey used to say. Just an aside. I think if one instantly understands that reference and is still tonally happy with those years this head is the closest to the groove next to schleppin major weight. (I have no proof)
I will see soon. Got GHS compressions on 2 basses currently and gonna put some broke in flats on a third.
To the previous poster, without any scientific proof whatsoever but likin Chromes, You might just be "headed in the right direction"
PS just thought this thread was goin stale so I jumped in.
I grew up with my dad playin New Orleans stuff/jazz/blues and I enjoyed Albert King the opening act as much or more than Hendrix Cream etc and default to blues clubs etc.
My first bass amp was Fender tube in the early 60's
I love hearing folks through backline Ampeg SVT's so I hope this baby will honk thru my LDS 1515/66 like KJung surmises.
Yes JimmyM I am an old and feeble woosie re SVT lifting
I will see soon. Got GHS compressions on 2 basses currently and gonna put some broke in flats on a third.
To the previous poster, without any scientific proof whatsoever but likin Chromes, You might just be "headed in the right direction"
PS just thought this thread was goin stale so I jumped in.
I grew up with my dad playin New Orleans stuff/jazz/blues and I enjoyed Albert King the opening act as much or more than Hendrix Cream etc and default to blues clubs etc.
My first bass amp was Fender tube in the early 60's
I love hearing folks through backline Ampeg SVT's so I hope this baby will honk thru my LDS 1515/66 like KJung surmises.
Yes JimmyM I am an old and feeble woosie re SVT lifting
Nice to see some diverging opinions finally and people willing to admit a product doesn't fit their personal preferences despite having just spent good amounts of cash!
I'm still very intrigued by this amp but am wary of the excessive low end and seemingly slight mid scoop.
In the Rocket Music forum there's a very revealing thread titled Genz amp shootout or something similar: it includes a recording where each verse is tracked with a different amp (shuttle 9, 9.2 tube. 9.2 fet and the streamliner). Upon listening to it the first time it was evident to me that the Streamliner sounded very tubby and dare I say muddy in the mix compared to the others. Works for some...
The solo tracks or videos I heard sounded very nice though.
Off course I'm still waiting for one to show up at my local dealer so I can try it out in person since no amount of youtube videos and recordings can really define an amp.
I'm still very intrigued by this amp but am wary of the excessive low end and seemingly slight mid scoop.
In the Rocket Music forum there's a very revealing thread titled Genz amp shootout or something similar: it includes a recording where each verse is tracked with a different amp (shuttle 9, 9.2 tube. 9.2 fet and the streamliner). Upon listening to it the first time it was evident to me that the Streamliner sounded very tubby and dare I say muddy in the mix compared to the others. Works for some...
The solo tracks or videos I heard sounded very nice though.
Off course I'm still waiting for one to show up at my local dealer so I can try it out in person since no amount of youtube videos and recordings can really define an amp.
Haha. I want to like it! I do like it, in my rehearsal space. I'm just afraid of the gig a bit. Since I can't gig it before my 7 day trial period for returning is over, I'm in a bit of a quandary. I've decided to err on the side of fully testing it. Maybe I'll wind up complying after all. Conformity is much easier, that's for sure!
how about an impromptu jam session with some friends? that might help you and still get under the 7 days. also, there's less pressure than a gig would have . . . you can twiddle knobs, etc.
If there is a mid-scoop, it's not apparent to me, but my ears aren't attuned to the likes of the Shuttle or any hi-fi heads. To me, it has more useful mids going on that the TC and MESA amps I've used recently.
I used a SansAmp for a number of years. Now THAT was mid-scooped. It eventually drove me nuts - it sucked the life and character out of my basses, and killed them in the mix.
I'm happy to say the Streamliner is nothing like that...
I seriously doubt, even without hearing in person, that Genz would produce a mid scooped amp when Genz always seem to post about mids and how important they are.
Maybe there isn't as much high mid content, but the Shuttle amps do seem to contain quite a lot of that sheen, so this is just a different flavour.
I'm biased because I'm a big fan of low mid punch!
Remember, there were many players who wanted a thicker syrupy amp, and classed the Shuttle 6 etc as a little too thin for their tastes, so this is the amp that shows that Genz can also do the thick, chunky bass tone, that still has articulation.
Maybe there isn't as much high mid content, but the Shuttle amps do seem to contain quite a lot of that sheen, so this is just a different flavour.
I'm biased because I'm a big fan of low mid punch!
Remember, there were many players who wanted a thicker syrupy amp, and classed the Shuttle 6 etc as a little too thin for their tastes, so this is the amp that shows that Genz can also do the thick, chunky bass tone, that still has articulation.
Again, if any SL owners have a soundcard, please run a frequency response test. That will tell us what's going on....
I definitely have this in mind! I do find however that thick fat low end heavy amps tend to sound better (for me) at lower volume and in certain specific mixes. As I crank up the volume I tend to cut some lows (or at least go back down to flat) so if people are reporting cutting the bass knob down to 9 o'clock I begin to wonder.
I'll have a 15/6 over here today for a quick test prior to LDS shipping it to its new owner. I'm looking forward to that and will post up.
Per the above, I cannot even fathom why anyone would cut the low end of the Streamliner to 9 o'clock, UNLESS they just don't like the voicing of an amp or are pairing it with a modern voiced cab (i.e., big lows, polite mids, a big hole between the top of the driver and the tweeter in the upper mids, and a tweeter set too high... I virtually turn my tweeter off when using this amp). You can't make a DB750 into a Shuttle 6 by turning down the bass, just different things.
Again, this amp is voiced to emulate an all tube amp. If you go about your cabinet choice with that in mind, this amp is among the finest I've ever heard.
If, on the other hand, you like the Shuttle a lot (as an example), and for some reason buy this amp, you will probably find it too fat, to warm, too big, and polite in the upper mids. Again, Genz in NO way made a 'new Shuttle' with this amp.... totally different thing.
With my Ash/maple P with nickel rounds, set flat with an appropriate cab (i.e., a cab that has been reported to sound great with a tube amp or DB750 like the AE410 or the Berg HS line of cabs, or the NV's), it is a dream set virtually flat. I think it sounds very nice with my alder/RW J also, but for my more aggressive ash/maple J's, I prefer another head.
Amazing head, but surely not a replacement for most who like the more usual solid state or 'mild hybrid' voicing of other micro's. DB750 or MPulse600 lovers (and even Sadowsky SA200 or Reeves lovers, or Alembic pre/power amp users)..... IMO they might like this one a lot
I'm not referring to it's voicing or tone stack. There is not a Solid State amp out there that sounds exactly like a full tube amp (power and pre). Nor is there a digital amp out there that sounds like a full tube amp (Streamliner is the closest I have come across and I have played/owned most micros that claim tube-type sound).
Nor do I know of a tube amp that replicates the sound and feel of a solid state amp (the SA200 or Reeves likely are the closest).
But regardless of "voicing" there is a fundamental difference in the way those types of amps behave and it comes through in the sound.
I don't think so but I remember reading someone playing through a Berg AE212 and doing that, through headphones also.
Really, I'm not trying to knock the Streamliner, just compiling some observations.
As we know, no piece of gear will be everything for everybody.
I know GB makes fine equipment, I owned a GBE750 for a while, I'm trying to figure out how it might fit my tone goals without having the opportunity to try one out since up here in the great white north we always get stuff later and it's more expensive, despite the canadian dollar being on par with the US.
As an example a Markbass F1 is over 1000$ + about 15% tax where I live
I also know from experience that I can't really judge an amp from trying it out at store volume so I really appreciate the input from TB'ers who gig/rehearse etc.
I don't think so but I remember reading someone playing through a Berg AE212 and doing that, through headphones also.
Really, I'm not trying to knock the Streamliner, just compiling some observations.
As we know, no piece of gear will be everything for everybody.
I know GB makes fine equipment, I owned a GBE750 for a while, I'm trying to figure out how it might fit my tone goals without having the opportunity to try one out since up here in the great white north we always get stuff later and it's more expensive, despite the canadian dollar being on par with the US.
As an example a Markbass F1 is over 1000$ + about 15% tax where I live
I also know from experience that I can't really judge an amp from trying it out at store volume so I really appreciate the input from TB'ers who gig/rehearse etc.
If the AE212 was my primary gigging cab, I would not recommend this head. I actually turn the bass down a touch with that cab and my F1/F500! Love it with those heads. I would also not recommend a Mesa MPulse600 or DB750 with the AE212.... way too much of a good thing for me... fat low end, smooth upper mids, and a modern brightness to that cab that doesn't fit with the quite authentic vintage tube like top end of that head.
In my clips with my AE410, the tweeter is almost off.
Again, if you dug the tight punch and bright, grindy upper mids of the GBE750, or the even, tight punch of the F1, this head might provide a wonderful 'other flavor' for you if you wanted to go a bit old school or whatever, but it would in no way be a 'substitute or replacement' for those heads IMO.
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