Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 5

[ScottTunes]

As an aging tube guy, I was very interested in this Genz "tube" head. To get the tube sound and feel in under 10 pounds is a

Like many here, I traveled with the mighty V-9 SVT (which stands for "Super Valve Technology." So I don't understand why Ampeg is using it with cabinets and non tube heads!!). 220 watts at 4 ohms was ALWAYS enough, and usually too much. The Streamliner seems underpowered at 600 watts... But for me, the bass knob is set at 9-ish o'clock, robbing some of the perceived power... And adding the extra 2db of the 900 watt Streamliner doesn't seem to mean much (though I haven't compared the 2 power levels side by side).

I like the "streamlined" simplicity! Very "tube amp" like, and seemingly intended as "plug-n-play." The highs are as described many times here - silky, and extended (particularly through horn/tweeter loaded cabs). The bass control shelf is about 55hz... too low for me... But did exhibit a bit of “pillow-y” sound, as previously described… BUT, ultimately, there's something missing in the mids...

The Streamliner does in deed sound like it was designed using the Fender Precision Bass - a match made in heaven, as some have said. And the P is mid dominant... Maybe that's the secret. In fact, all of my solid body basses with RW strings, sound great! However, being a Jamerson/McCartney type, this amp does not have my sound, no matter how I tweak the knobs. No tube amp sustain, harmonics, touch, and maybe a little compression from the 12AX7s when pushed... But nothing like a power output section being pushed... I'm doomed to schlep the vintage "big iron!"

I tried the STM-600 with solid bodies, flats, rounds, single 15s, 2x12s and 2x15 cabs (non with tweeters, BTW)... The 4 ohm ported 2x15 (TL designed, like the Mesa Diesel/Road Ready cabs) sounded good! "Modern," but good! Really big and open (as KJ has said). But with a P type bass, and not with the Hofners...

I love my Hofners! Very complex and rich sounding basses... But not through this Streamliner... It's just not a good amp for hollow bodies with flats.

In a word, disappointing. So, mine is going back, unless someone here wants it.

 

[KJung]

As an aging tube guy, I was very interested in this Genz "tube" head. To get the tube sound and feel in under 10 pounds is a

Like many here, I traveled with the mighty V-9 SVT (which stands for "Super Valve Technology." So I don't understand why Ampeg is using it with cabinets and non tube heads!!). 220 watts at 4 ohms was ALWAYS enough, and usually too much. The Streamliner seems underpowered at 600 watts... But for me, the bass knob is set at 9-ish o'clock, robbing some of the perceived power... And adding the extra 2db of the 900 watt Streamliner doesn't seem to mean much (though I haven't compared the 2 power levels side by side).

I like the "streamlined" simplicity! Very "tube amp" like, and seemingly intended as "plug-n-play." The highs are as described many times here - silky, and extended (particularly through horn/tweeter loaded cabs). The bass control shelf is about 55hz... too low for me... But did exhibit a bit of “pillow-y” sound, as previously described… BUT, ultimately, there's something missing in the mids...

The Streamliner does in deed sound like it was designed using the Fender Precision Bass - a match made in heaven, as some have said. And the P is mid dominant... Maybe that's the secret. In fact, all of my solid body basses with RW strings, sound great! However, being a Jamerson/McCartney type, this amp does not have my sound, no matter how I tweak the knobs. No tube amp sustain, harmonics, touch, and maybe a little compression from the 12AX7s when pushed... But nothing like a power output section being pushed... I'm doomed to schlep the vintage "big iron!"

I tried the STM-600 with solid bodies, flats, rounds, single 15s, 2x12s and 2x15 cabs (non with tweeters, BTW)... The 4 ohm ported 2x15 (TL designed, like the Mesa Diesel/Road Ready cabs) sounded good! "Modern," but good! Really big and open (as KJ has said). But with a P type bass, and not with the Hofners...

I love my Hofners! Very complex and rich sounding basses... But not through this Streamliner... It's just not a good amp for hollow bodies with flats.

In a word, disappointing. So, mine is going back, unless someone here wants it.

Hey Scott. I can see how that RH450 just sings with the Hofner type thing (it is just a touch 'boxy with my P)... more woody and grunty and punchy. My RH450 is going nowhere... another very good 'tubey' execution with a bit more of that Ampeg like grunt to its voicing (to my ear), versus the more 'modern tube/DB750ish vibe of the Streamliner.

 

[Saluki]

I am gigging mine at church this weekend through AE410 and will be using the DI to a nice FOH. On stage will be competing with 2 marshall half stacks, full choir, and wait for it.....bagpipes. Never played with bagpipes before, but we are doing some celtic stuff. Mix will be busy and fairly loud and will see how it performs. Playing my valenti alder/RW j bass with nordstrand preamp and single coils.

 

[KJung]

I am gigging mine at church this weekend through AE410 and will be using the DI to a nice FOH. On stage will be competing with 2 marshall half stacks, full choir, and wait for it.....bagpipes. Never played with bagpipes before, but we are doing some celtic stuff. Mix will be busy and fairly loud and will see how it performs. Playing my valenti alder/RW j bass with nordstrand preamp and single coils.

Cool! I'll have mine out with the P and the AE410 in a large ballroom with no PA support in Louisville this weekend.

Remember to turn that tweeter down! This head is all about copping that upper mid grind from the top of those drivers, and the AE410 sounds amazing up there with the tweet down around 9 o'clock or so.

 

[Gab124]

All these concerns that this amp does not do what some other amp does -
The Streamliner does the Streamliner sound better than any other amp, don't let anyone tell you otherwise It is not a big tube amp, it is not like the other hybrids, and it is not a solid state sound. I think it rather cool it is doing its own thing really well.
I am surprised that there are statements of it being boomy, I just can't get my ear to hear that with this amp yet, but if one is used to really mid focused maybe thats it.
Personally I am glad there are more and more unhappy with it, cause I was getting afaid everyone was going to sound like me....
FWIW, I do understand the need for comparison as a reference point.

 

[SteveC]

On stage will be competing with 2 marshall half stacks...

Really. I can't imagine 2 Marshall half stacks in church. How big a room? Any PA support? We have no stage amps and a nice FOH/Monitor system. Guitars go DI or Pod as does bass, keys and electronic drum kit.

 

[wateroftyne]

Boominess... As I mentioned earlier, two of my gigs this weekend were in a boomy, lively room where I have never been able to get a decent, define tone.

The STL sounded incredible. I rolled the bass back to 11o'clock, and nudged 200hz a bit. Had it been boomy, the room would have been incredibly unforgiving and the whole thing would have been a mush.

Warm and fat? Yep! Boomy? Not IME.

 

[Vic]

I'll be trying one of these soon, but for me, the hot topic will be the dip in the mids. I don't care how this amp may or may not directly compare to others from a voicing standpoint. I'm fine with it having its own voice. I celebrate that. But if I can't dial in a pretty even response through the mids when I want it with a J type bass, it won't go the distance with me, and I'll be disappointed. I have to be able to cut a busy mix, because that's my life fairly often. I'm hopeful tho.

 

[bassjam]

I'll have a 15/6 over here today for a quick test prior to LDS shipping it to its new owner. I'm looking forward to that and will post up.

Per the above, I cannot even fathom why anyone would cut the low end of the Streamliner to 9 o'clock, UNLESS they just don't like the voicing of an amp or are pairing it with a modern voiced cab (i.e., big lows, polite mids, a big hole between the top of the driver and the tweeter in the upper mids, and a tweeter set too high... I virtually turn my tweeter off when using this amp). You can't make a DB750 into a Shuttle 6 by turning down the bass, just different things.

Again, this amp is voiced to emulate an all tube amp. If you go about your cabinet choice with that in mind, this amp is among the finest I've ever heard.

If, on the other hand, you like the Shuttle a lot (as an example), and for some reason buy this amp, you will probably find it too fat, to warm, too big, and polite in the upper mids. Again, Genz in NO way made a 'new Shuttle' with this amp.... totally different thing.

With my Ash/maple P with nickel rounds, set flat with an appropriate cab (i.e., a cab that has been reported to sound great with a tube amp or DB750 like the AE410 or the Berg HS line of cabs, or the NV's), it is a dream set virtually flat. I think it sounds very nice with my alder/RW J also, but for my more aggressive ash/maple J's, I prefer another head.

Amazing head, but surely not a replacement for most who like the more usual solid state or 'mild hybrid' voicing of other micro's. DB750 or MPulse600 lovers (and even Sadowsky SA200 or Reeves lovers, or Alembic pre/power amp users)..... IMO they might like this one a lot

Hey Ken-be sure to post your thoughts on the 15/6.I actually spoke to Don the other day about that cab.I may just try it-

 

[hasbeen]

I'll be trying one of these soon, but for me, the hot topic will be the dip in the mids. I don't care how this amp may or may not directly compare to others from a voicing standpoint. I'm fine with it having its own voice. I celebrate that. But if I can't dial in a pretty even response through the mids when I want it with a J type bass, it won't go the distance with me, and I'll be disappointed. I have to be able to cut a busy mix, because that's my life fairly often. I'm hopeful tho.

a J bass was used more than any other in the voicing of this amp.

 

[KJung]

I'll be trying one of these soon, but for me, the hot topic will be the dip in the mids. I don't care how this amp may or may not directly compare to others from a voicing standpoint. I'm fine with it having its own voice. I celebrate that. But if I can't dial in a pretty even response through the mids when I want it with a J type bass, it won't go the distance with me, and I'll be disappointed. I have to be able to cut a busy mix, because that's my life fairly often. I'm hopeful tho.

As you can hear from my clips, and also Ed's, I hear absolutely no 'dip in the mids' in this head. It does not have a goosed upper mid response like many of the micro's, and has a higher ratio of true bass to low mids, but it has that very smooth, even mid response, very similar IMO to the LMII in the mid area.

However, from my experience with the tone you enjoy, I would not bother with this head if I were you. I again pretty much turn the tweeter off on my AE410... this head is MADE for a sealed, one way multi 10 cab.... it has that true tube amp top end... it can get pleasantly crunchy up there if you are pushing the drivers a bit. It will not sizzle, and while cutting the bass just a smidge and boosting 220hz just a smidge will make it quite punchy, it will not 'burp' like the F500.

That clip I did with the LM was with the amp virtually flat, with just a touch of upper mid boost dialed in to somewhat emulate the inherent voicing of a head like the Markbass F1 or whatever up there. I have no idea where these 'scooped mids' comments are coming from, except that I guess if you use this head with a cab that is scooped (like the 410UL for example) I agree it does not have the EQ power to dial back in a lot of mids that aren't there in the first place.

Those considering this head should, IMO, read the DB750 threads regarding cab matching. While the low end is much more controlled than the DB750, the 'nature of the beast' is similar, and info on cab matching with the DB750 can, IMO, be very useful to those who are looking for that 'Paul Turner' sort of fat, round, but articulate tone, with plenty of brightness but no modern sizzle.

 

[ElMon]

All these concerns that this amp does not do what some other amp does -
The Streamliner does the Streamliner sound better than any other amp, don't let anyone tell you otherwise It is not a big tube amp, it is not like the other hybrids, and it is not a solid state sound. I think it rather cool it is doing its own thing really well.
I am surprised that there are statements of it being boomy, I just can't get my ear to hear that with this amp yet, but if one is used to really mid focused maybe thats it.
Personally I am glad there are more and more unhappy with it, cause I was getting afaid everyone was going to sound like me....
FWIW, I do understand the need for comparison as a reference point.

It's worth stating again that the clips I posted of this amp showcase what this head can do in a loud dense mix with a bass that is inherently dark and thick sounding. Sadowsky PJ5in alder/brazilian rosewood strung with D'Addario Chrome Flatwounds.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f19/s...u-genz-benz-streamliner-no-pa-support-748017/

I should also post these clips from the same evening where a friend of mine sat in with his VERY bright sounding Modulus Q5:

All Along the Watchtower w/Myers

YouTube - Hargis and Co Set 3 All Along the Watchtower w:Mike Myers

Chameleon w/Myers

YouTube - Hargis and Co Set 3 Chameleon w:Mike Myers

Eminence Front w/ Myers

YouTube - Hargis and Co Set 3 Eminence Front w: Mike Myers

Chameleon in particular showcases the slap tone he get's, and Eminence Front has a tasty bass solo in it if you want to hear it in that context.

 

[Vic]

a J bass was used more than any other in the voicing of this amp.

Yep, as with Ed's video, which is why I'm "hopeful".

As you can hear from my clips, and also Ed's, I hear absolutely no 'dip in the mids' in this head.

I disagree. When you listen to Ed's quick flip with the S9, it's really prevalent... even if you consider the S9 to be "goosed".

IMHO of course.

Oh, and don't be too quick to judge what I'm after. I AM looking for variation here.

 

[svtb15]

I guess it all depends on what you enjoy in the final amp . cab . string combination ..
I used my 73 Jazz with Xl170s the other day and it did the jazz bass thing perfectly..

EDIT : And my rig did just fine.. Loud drummer, two guitar players, one with marshall 50 2x12 the other with some 50 watt Dumble clone. B3 with 2 Leslie 147s.. you get the picture/// YES a real honest to goodness B3.... NOTHING sounds like it..

I'll be trying one of these soon, but for me, the hot topic will be the dip in the mids. I don't care how this amp may or may not directly compare to others from a voicing standpoint. I'm fine with it having its own voice. I celebrate that. But if I can't dial in a pretty even response through the mids when I want it with a J type bass, it won't go the distance with me, and I'll be disappointed. I have to be able to cut a busy mix, because that's my life fairly often. I'm hopeful tho.

 

[Vic]

I guess it all depends on what you enjoy in the final amp . cab . string combination ..
I used my 73 Jazz with Xl170s the other day and it did the jazz bass thing perfectly..

Yeah, this is what I'm looking for.

 

[KJung]

Yep, as with Ed's video, which is why I'm "hopeful".

I disagree. When you listen to Ed's quick flip with the S9, it's really prevalent... even if you consider the S9 to be "goosed".

IMHO of course.

Oh, and don't be too quick to judge what I'm after. I AM looking for variation here.

Don't hear that at all (although Ed's clips seem to be quite more compressed than mine... the low end differences don't seem to come through as well... might be due to his 'close in mic'ing, or whatever). The Shuttle is definitely tighter down low and brighter in the upper mids though, and I hear that on Ed's clip and also when Mike and I did the Shuttle 9/Streamliner comparison.

The key is, VERY different, so +1 there.

 

[Musicman20]

You guys are getting me worried with the scooped mids talk!!!

 

[Quadzilla]

Im IN ... and here's my very unprofessionally-shot photo:

I have the same cab as yours (Epi UL310 SII). How does this head do with this cab? I have a MB F500 paired with the UL310 now which is "MONEY", but the Streamliner has me intrigued.

I play mostly P's, J's and MM basses.

 

[wateroftyne]

You guys are getting me worried with the scooped mids talk!!!

10°c might feel positively balmy to an Inuit, but freezing cold to someone from Indonesia.... It's all relative, innit?

 

[ElMon]

You guys are getting me worried with the scooped mids talk!!!

Not scooped at all IMO. BUT, and this is a huge deal to some, it does not have the inherent hi-mid punch and overall SS brightness that other micro heads have. If you like your bass to sound ultra-bright and want to hear the windings of your string, or if you have an inherently dark bass to begin with, then this is probably NOT your head.

For my needs, the lowmid grunt and overall thickness to the sound is exactly what I need. YMMV.