svtb15
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- Mar 22, 2004
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- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
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Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 5
- Thread starter Chef
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Another though on this midrange thing, but don't be afraid to get those cabs up off the ground so you can hear them better. I'm NOT talking about mechanical coupling that can be fixed with a Gramma pad. I'm talking about elevating the cabs so that you can hear the mids. While this seems to be pretty common for professionals to do, most gigging players seem to refuse it entirely. I've seen Patitucci a few times, and he elevates his 410 up on top of a touring case. It's a good 2-3 feet off the ground. Gary Willis has been elevating his gs112x3 stack about 12-20 inches off the ground for years, but the last few times I've seen pictures of his rig he's only using two 112's and they're stacked 2-3 feet off the ground. He also uses a db750 which has the huge bottom end. Doug Johns elevates his Uber 410 about 3 feet off the ground also. Every year when I play one of the huge Gulf Coast jazz festivals that is backlined with both a DB750/GS410(x2) and Eden WT800/410xlt(x2) rig, MANY of the guys there unplug the bottom 410 and only run off the top cabinet. It allows you to push the bottom end you want to hear without that low-end boundary reflection over powering the midrange character. Yes, it's not as thick and cushy TO YOU, the player, since you can hear mids. But it sounds EXACTLY the same out in front of the stage. A few feet of elevation is not enough to eliminate the boundary reflection off the floor for the bass signal, so you' won't be impacting the house. Think about it. When you kneel down in front of your cab, it sounds fantastic, doesn't it? Then you stand up and take a step away and it sounds like mud again? Get that cab up off the ground so you can hear it!
For many folks, raising their cabs 2-3 feet off the floor right off the bat might not yield a pleasant experience initially, so take some time baby stepping into it. Build a small wooden platform that starts you off at 10 inches, or find a milk crate. That alone will work wonders on hearing yourself like you want. Once you get the correct height dialed in, build yourself a decent wooden box and paint it black so that it matches your cab. Once you get used to this you'll never want to play any other way.
For many folks, raising their cabs 2-3 feet off the floor right off the bat might not yield a pleasant experience initially, so take some time baby stepping into it. Build a small wooden platform that starts you off at 10 inches, or find a milk crate. That alone will work wonders on hearing yourself like you want. Once you get the correct height dialed in, build yourself a decent wooden box and paint it black so that it matches your cab. Once you get used to this you'll never want to play any other way.
Very true, I run 2 Epifani 310s & crazy how the few feet makes it sound like totally different cabs.
Random thoughts:
I'm loving the DB750 comparisons. Thats why we bought this amp! I can do hi-fi with my other amps.
Still loving the 2.5K mid setting
Just bought a foldable hand truck on sale at Kmart this week $19.99
I still haul heavy cabs in favor of tone!!
Heres the link
Clothing, Toys, Electronics, Jewelry, Jaclyn Smith - Kmart.com
Pre EQ, the DI's will sound quite similar, as most do. Post EQ, there will obviously be quite a difference.
Interestingly, I'm not really hearing the 8ohm wump with this head. Doesn't seem any louder than my F500 or Puma into a 15/6 (although both those heads outperform the LMII at 8ohms).
At 4ohms, it does seem to pull ahead of other micro's quite a bit. I wonder if all that fancy limiting and power amp management doesn't really kick in until you are pushing the amp at 4ohms. I was actually a bit disappointed at the 8ohm performance (not disappointed in an absolute sense, but the amp didn't seem to perform up to the ravings of a couple people who post about that on the Genz threads).
Just bought a foldable hand truck on sale at Kmart this week $19.99
I still haul heavy cabs in favor of tone!!
Heres the link
Clothing, Toys, Electronics, Jewelry, Jaclyn Smith - Kmart.com
Shouldn't that be in the Hand Truck thread?
I have the same one 
Shouldn't that be in the Hand Truck thread?
Of course it should! Guess I'm making the point that while the SL is light & portable we aren't just buying this head for that reason, it has to kill tone wise.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
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- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
I dont think the LM DI is even worth having.. IMO..
And the SL900 DI is post tube IIRC.. much clearer and open sounding than the LM From my experience and by eaves dropping on some sound guys that i normally hang with . They wont even touch an LM DI.. but they are happy with the SL or 9.0
How often have you wound it up to the max on a 8 ohm cab .. On a gig...... not in your home but on a gig
And the SL900 DI is post tube IIRC.. much clearer and open sounding than the LM From my experience and by eaves dropping on some sound guys that i normally hang with . They wont even touch an LM DI.. but they are happy with the SL or 9.0
How often have you wound it up to the max on a 8 ohm cab .. On a gig...... not in your home but on a gig
How is the SL DI better than the LM DI pre-EQ and post-EQ? What do the soundmen say? Is the tone pre-EQ the same vs the LM? Thanks for answering this question I asked weeks ago, its SUPER important to me too
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
The SL is slightly wider sounding to me.. More like a Countryman.. at least the 9.0 and Max12 are...
I regularly tour with a guy that is the sound guy for Bonnie Raitt ..Just did a gig with him last week.... He dislikes the MB DI in the LM for untraceable noise issues.. hisses, clicks. pops... etc... Bonnies occasional openers have had a MB rig and the sound company had issues... once the LM was removed the noises ceased... and apparently it was dull sounding.... so they used his stock DIs.
The MB and Sl900 circuits are different topology...The SL is a Tube DI.... so according to many in this thread, the Tube sound is way different than a SS one... So you really need to try it for yourself to see if it works.. Its not something that can be described in a forum...
I regularly tour with a guy that is the sound guy for Bonnie Raitt ..Just did a gig with him last week.... He dislikes the MB DI in the LM for untraceable noise issues.. hisses, clicks. pops... etc... Bonnies occasional openers have had a MB rig and the sound company had issues... once the LM was removed the noises ceased... and apparently it was dull sounding.... so they used his stock DIs.
The MB and Sl900 circuits are different topology...The SL is a Tube DI.... so according to many in this thread, the Tube sound is way different than a SS one... So you really need to try it for yourself to see if it works.. Its not something that can be described in a forum...
I would be almost certain that the LM's they experienced were post EQ DI's, since you have to take the top off to change the DI to the appropriate pre EQ for live performance. The pre EQ DI on the LM is a beautiful thing. OF course, virtually every pre EQ DI is a similarly beautiful thing
Again. pre EQ and post EQ DI are totally different things
Again, if the LMII DI was not changed from pre to post, a sound person would run into the same issues as a post EQ sent from any DI. Comparing a pre EQ DI with a post EQ DI is a useless exercise. I've had WONDERFUL experiences with the LMII DI set to pre EQ, and have recieved only positive feedback.And, how often have you gigged with the pre EQ LMII DI? Even a better question... have you even heard the pre EQ LMII DI?
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
Well if we go back in time we can find all the not nice things you said about the MB DI..
There are many that actually gig shows that can hear the difference... just saying
There are many that actually gig shows that can hear the difference... just saying
Again. pre EQ and post EQ DI are totally different things
That is a different topic. The fact that the original LMII did not have a pre/post DI switch was one of the dumbest things a manufacturer ever did, and was totally strange considering the amazing performance of that amp in general. I agree... dumb, and I posted up a lot about that.
I also agree, that if someone shows up with a backline LMII, and they don't realize it is post DI fixed, and then EQ a bunch on stage, very ugly things can happen. +1. However, once you take the 2 minutes to move the internal jumper to 'pre EQ', the DI is acually quite nice. It seems totally strange to me that a pro level sound person would blindly take a feed from an amp on a top line gig period, much less take a feed from an amp that they were unsure of the pre/post EQ status. Strange to me. EVen with my corporate gig thing, the sound professionals are quite high end, and would never just blindly take a feed from the back of an amp without discussing the pre/post issue with the player.
The LMIII 'fixed' this issue, by adding a pre/post switch and also a DI level control, since some low end boards had trouble with the fixed line level of the original DI.
Again, the pre EQ DI's of most heads sound virtually identical in my experience, and the vast majority of players in my circle uss a pre EQ DI on the gig ( or a separate DI like you do with your Reddi, that provides you with the tone you dig, or a mic).
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
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- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
YOU have to stop making excuses for the LM issues.
Hey the thing worked for many .. and did a great job.. its a good tool.
The DI.. well I have no idea what they were thinking.. An INSIDE Jumper... W T H...
Hey the thing worked for many .. and did a great job.. its a good tool.
The DI.. well I have no idea what they were thinking.. An INSIDE Jumper... W T H...
:
+1 To be fair, they listened to the consumer and fixed that issue with the LMIII. Just like Genz, a good company that listens to their customers IMOand IME!
+1 To be fair, they listened to the consumer and fixed that issue with the LMIII. Just like Genz, a good company that listens to their customers IMOand IME!
For the record, MB also listened to me complaining like a jerk about their warranty not transfering...and last I heard they offer a transferable warranty with original receipt now. Kind of a side issue, but they're definitely not a faceless company peddling junk or something
I think MB have HAD to listen, because they dont have the CS like Genz.
Sorry, OT! I think Id have more interest in another MB product if they realised the UK prices are quite high!
Anyway, back on track.
Sorry, OT! I think Id have more interest in another MB product if they realised the UK prices are quite high!
Anyway, back on track.
Yes, seems like that was discussed sometime in the distant past of streamliner banter.
On another note, I came up with a new setting for mine to go with my passive jazz bass. Gain switch out, gain dimed and channel volume on 2. EQ - bass10:30 mids 1:00 @ 220 and treble 1:00 Wow, what a responsive setting for my touch and instrument. Really brings out playing position nuances, and slight changes from instrument tone pot. Digging it right now. I just cannot get over how many sounds can come from so few knobs.
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