Yeah, my pre tube went bad in my Shuttle 6.0 at about a year. The great people at Genz replaced it and serviced the amp back to new. Sold it off and got myself an awesome STL600!Preamp tubes can last a looooooooong time... they're not like power tubes (which can also last a looooooong time but are more prone to failure). They do go bad on occasion, but more often than not it will be years before they need maintenance IME.
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Genz Benz Streamliner Pt 7.....
- Thread starter Chef
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When I talked to Scott at the GB shop about my possible issue with a tube he said I could gladly ship it but also said I could do it myself with the caveat being if I wasnt comfortable doing it send it in. An offer was made to send me a new tube as well, which I declined because the problem stopped.
Unfortunately, with the tube sound that we all want comes tube reliability.
Also, this is a brand new product and there are bound to be a few hiccups. What's great is that they stand by their products and actively participate here. Like someone said here while I was upset at the buzz I was getting I knew that I would be taken care of which I was. I called the company spoke to nice woman and was then connected to Scott in their shop. Great customer service.
That's great and I've not heard a bad word ever said about their CS, unfortunalty for some of us we live too far away to have that sort of imediate service.
This is a Streamliner thread John so I cant say.
But YES!
The title of the thread is a bit buggered, but here it is:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/genz-benz-shuttlemax-9-0-now-reality-723017/
The main thing you want to do is look at the screw heads so you can be sure you have that tool in your bag.
I will defer to Redplanet and others, but JimmyM once said "groove tubes", I believe. As I understand it, they buy em, retest em and sell em? So presumed reliable?
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Pretty sure it's a tube, but give Jeff a call Monday morning and he will get it all taken care of for you. No worries.
Well my STM900 arrived yesterday. Beautiful piece of design work. Played it at home on top of my S9 and it sounded beautiful, much wider and thicker than the S9 for sure. Took it to a regular large outdoor venue we play regularly and set it up on my Epi UL610, sounded nice and big first show (1 1/2 hours) Started the second show and no power, pre was OK but barely any sound out of the cabinet at all. I had to run the G,V and master full, wide open could barely hear it on stage. Sound engineer (our regular guy) said the di signal was trash/distorted/weak also. I think that was due to me having to crank everything to hear at anything at all. I did have my S9.0 for back-up but it was the second show, packed house so I just finished the night as is. I'm not a very happy camper this morning at all. I'm going to hook up the STM900 now at home and see what's up. Definitely not the experience I expected. Any similar experiences and if so... the solution?
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JJ ECC803s / Hi-Performance 12AX7 Gold Pin
Any of the JJ 12AX7 are good quality tubes.
For current production tubes IMO the most reliable is the JJ. I like the Gold Pin versions and prefer their ECC803 tube the best.
That beind said if you get a JJ get them from Bob at Euro tubes as he gets the cream of the crop (no joke).
I also like the sound of the EH AND Tung Sol but neither last very long. The EH and Tung Sol are the same tube with a different getter.
I like NOS tubes, even if they do cost more they are worth more as they hold up and last.
I currently have a 1955 long plate Mullard ECC83 in V1, a 1956 long plate Mullard ECC83 in V2, and a 2009 Blackburn TechTube E813CC in V3. in my Streamliner 900.
That beind said if you get a JJ get them from Bob at Euro tubes as he gets the cream of the crop (no joke).
I also like the sound of the EH AND Tung Sol but neither last very long. The EH and Tung Sol are the same tube with a different getter.
I like NOS tubes, even if they do cost more they are worth more as they hold up and last.
I currently have a 1955 long plate Mullard ECC83 in V1, a 1956 long plate Mullard ECC83 in V2, and a 2009 Blackburn TechTube E813CC in V3. in my Streamliner 900.
Dr Funk
"If you ain't appearing then you be disappearing"
Thank you and I know that first hand and I never would imply otherwise. The show that I did do with it sounded great!
I'll try to go back and find all the tube posts and link them. No sense in typing all that again.
What did you notice most about the NOS in the SL. I assume the one in V1 made the most difference.
esoxhntr had some good results with a few different tubes. Perhaps he will come along.
I did not leave the stock tubes in long enough to compare.
The tube comments are in the locked down version #3 and #4 of this topic.
I've already posted this info several times.
It's best to experiment and try different things and find out what you like. I like lower gain tubes in the Streamliner when I want it squeaky clean.
I did not leave the stock tubes in long enough to compare.
The tube comments are in the locked down version #3 and #4 of this topic.
I've already posted this info several times.
It's best to experiment and try different things and find out what you like. I like lower gain tubes in the Streamliner when I want it squeaky clean.
I am by no means an expert, but here are my experiences with tubes, used with a Mesa Boogie Buster, Fender Bassman 50, Ampeg B15, and a number of Genz Benz heads that use tubes...
For new tubes, I like thetubestore.com. They usually have good advice if you have an idea of what you want to accomplish, and have a good selection of tubes at reasonable prices. There are more places to get tubes than you might think, both new, NOS, and used. thetubedepot.com, and Euro Tubes both have good selections and reasonable prices as well. I've never dealt with either, but have heard lots of good things about both, and Bob at Euro Tubes is generally regarded as being very knowledgeable.
As a standard, cost efficient, and durable tube, I like the Tung Sol 12ax7 reissue. It works well in a number of different amps, and is relatively inexpensive at $15. A trio of these and a pair of TAD power tubes were the shizzle in my bassman amp, and Tung Sols were also my first call replacement for my GBE750 and 1200. They tended to be a little on the clean side of neutral and punchy, which seems to work best for my tone preferences.
As for the Streamliner, I have tried the following:
Phillips JAN 12ax7 NOS (early 80's)
- warm, clean, with a little aggression
Sylvania 3 Mica 5751 (1962)
- warm, low gain
Sylvania 3 Mica 12ax7 (early 60's, matched)
- warm and buttery
RCA 3 Mica 5814A (1958, matched)
- a little warm, very clean, very low gain
TungSol 12ax7
- somewhat neutral, clean
My preferred set up for the moment is the RCA 5814A tubes in V1 and V2and a Phillips JAN 12ax7 in V3. This group of tubes seems to give the best variety of available tone, and provides rock solid, tight, punchy, and deep bass. Frankly, I am surprised how good the Phillips tube sounds in the midrange socket - I figured one of the older Sylvania tubes would provide the warmth a signature vintage sound I was looking for, but the Phillips tube seems better at bringing out the specific mid voice of any given bass.
The 5814A tubes provide cleanliness and punch in V1 and V2. The low gain configuration allows the pre control to be turned up to maximize the signal from the instrument, and gives tight bass (as mentioned) and sweet top end.
I had a conversation via PM earlier on with either Hasbeen or Agedhorse (yet another reason to love GB), and the concern was that mixing and matching tubes with differing bandwiths and gain structures may have undesirable sonic effects (Andy, Roger, please jump in here if I'm getting this wrong). This seemed to be an issue with certain tube combinations, but it is likely just as dependent on bass and cab choice, as well as sonic preferences.
I would suggest trying to remember a couple of things...
1. I did not pay - and nor will you - mega bucks for any of these old tubes. $40 is about top end of what I laid out, and ebay is a pretty good source.
2. Changing tubes is fun if you're into it, and dead easy with a little care. Try to use an old t-shirt or something so as not to get finger grease on the tube.
3. Changing tubes is not necessary. The supplied Ruby tube is a proven, reliable, inexpensive, sonically viable, and easily obtainable tube. If it sounds good to you, why worry?
4. As has been stated before, this is a tube amp. There are 3 tubes in this thing, and you must get used to the fact that tubes will fail periodically, and will need replacement. Best to have some extras on hand, and know how to do the job so as not to get stuck unnecessarily with a non-functional amp. Just sayin'...
At the risk of repeating myself, I was excited about the prospect of being able to "tune" this amp for my own preferences. So far, I've enjoyed the experience, and am very happy with the sound I've been able to get. I think tube rolling is very much part of the fun with this amp, especially since preamp tubes are relatively inexpensive. Of course, YMMV.
For new tubes, I like thetubestore.com. They usually have good advice if you have an idea of what you want to accomplish, and have a good selection of tubes at reasonable prices. There are more places to get tubes than you might think, both new, NOS, and used. thetubedepot.com, and Euro Tubes both have good selections and reasonable prices as well. I've never dealt with either, but have heard lots of good things about both, and Bob at Euro Tubes is generally regarded as being very knowledgeable.
As a standard, cost efficient, and durable tube, I like the Tung Sol 12ax7 reissue. It works well in a number of different amps, and is relatively inexpensive at $15. A trio of these and a pair of TAD power tubes were the shizzle in my bassman amp, and Tung Sols were also my first call replacement for my GBE750 and 1200. They tended to be a little on the clean side of neutral and punchy, which seems to work best for my tone preferences.
As for the Streamliner, I have tried the following:
Phillips JAN 12ax7 NOS (early 80's)
- warm, clean, with a little aggression
Sylvania 3 Mica 5751 (1962)
- warm, low gain
Sylvania 3 Mica 12ax7 (early 60's, matched)
- warm and buttery
RCA 3 Mica 5814A (1958, matched)
- a little warm, very clean, very low gain
TungSol 12ax7
- somewhat neutral, clean
My preferred set up for the moment is the RCA 5814A tubes in V1 and V2and a Phillips JAN 12ax7 in V3. This group of tubes seems to give the best variety of available tone, and provides rock solid, tight, punchy, and deep bass. Frankly, I am surprised how good the Phillips tube sounds in the midrange socket - I figured one of the older Sylvania tubes would provide the warmth a signature vintage sound I was looking for, but the Phillips tube seems better at bringing out the specific mid voice of any given bass.
The 5814A tubes provide cleanliness and punch in V1 and V2. The low gain configuration allows the pre control to be turned up to maximize the signal from the instrument, and gives tight bass (as mentioned) and sweet top end.
I had a conversation via PM earlier on with either Hasbeen or Agedhorse (yet another reason to love GB), and the concern was that mixing and matching tubes with differing bandwiths and gain structures may have undesirable sonic effects (Andy, Roger, please jump in here if I'm getting this wrong). This seemed to be an issue with certain tube combinations, but it is likely just as dependent on bass and cab choice, as well as sonic preferences.
I would suggest trying to remember a couple of things...
1. I did not pay - and nor will you - mega bucks for any of these old tubes. $40 is about top end of what I laid out, and ebay is a pretty good source.
2. Changing tubes is fun if you're into it, and dead easy with a little care. Try to use an old t-shirt or something so as not to get finger grease on the tube.
3. Changing tubes is not necessary. The supplied Ruby tube is a proven, reliable, inexpensive, sonically viable, and easily obtainable tube. If it sounds good to you, why worry?
4. As has been stated before, this is a tube amp. There are 3 tubes in this thing, and you must get used to the fact that tubes will fail periodically, and will need replacement. Best to have some extras on hand, and know how to do the job so as not to get stuck unnecessarily with a non-functional amp. Just sayin'...
At the risk of repeating myself, I was excited about the prospect of being able to "tune" this amp for my own preferences. So far, I've enjoyed the experience, and am very happy with the sound I've been able to get. I think tube rolling is very much part of the fun with this amp, especially since preamp tubes are relatively inexpensive. Of course, YMMV.
It never ceases to amaze me how many knowledgable people roam this forum. My wife........not so appreciative.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,056
- 5
- 221,031
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Without knowing the specific topology of the circuit stages the tube is being used in, it really is a crapshoot as to what tubes might sound better (or worse) because there are several variables involved and some may be conflicting or competing as well. You really have to try things out if you want to roll tubes. You are as likely to make an improvement as to go the other way, the odds are roughly 50-50.
Also, it should be noted that some tubes may not have the right gain/transconductance or impedance curve to work properly in some circuits. This is a general comment that would apply to all amps by all manufacturers.
Cool John.Thanks,I'll go there.I saw that thread at one time but didn't spend much time there.
BTW-Tues is the day!!
Yeah, ive rolled tubes in other bass amps and hard to tell many changes. Now in the audiophile/head-fi world there is a definite difference when rolling tubes. I have a couple of tube headphone amps that are fun to roll tubes. I will leave my Streamliner alone. Its perfect !
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