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Genz Benz Streamliner Pt 7.....

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I fooled around with my small collection of preamp tubes (recent JJ, Tung Sol, EH, old Brimar, Philips and Sylvania) in 12AX7, 12AT7 and 12AY7 flavours.

Differences were interesting but not earth-shattering. The stock tubes are back in there at the moment, and likely to stay unless one craps out...
 
Would I be right in thinking GB settled on the stock tubes because they give the desired tone, or just because they are cheap tubes.

I'll weight in with my thoughts on this. And with my thoughts...you get what you pay for. ;)

First, I am far from a tube expert nor do a play one on TV. That said...as has already been stated. Most of the new tubes on the market are not expensive in the big scheme of things. So, I don't think GB is settling at all. If they were settling, you would not see so many people saying how much they love the Streamliner. So, let's look at the other side of this coin. Let's say GB did put in a more expensive tube. Take that times 3 tubes and the overhead costs. It is probably going to increase the cost $150 - $200. So, you have now added 15-20% to the cost of a 900 and even more to a 600. Most of the population would probably not even notice the difference in sound. Whether or not that sound is "better" would still be up for discussion. So, why have the entire purchasing population pay 15% or more for something that most of the population is not going to even be able to hear and even fewer will think it is an improvement?

All that said, the Streamliner is a kick A$$ amp the way that it is. I am of the opinion...If it ain't broke...Don't fix it. If you do feel the need to "fix" it...It's your perogative...have at it!

But, I don't think GB "settled" at all. It is one of the best amps on the market. Just the way it is. IMHO> :bassist:
 
So, quick gig report....
Out door festival.
My luck I was on the stage left.
In the direct sun.
As was my SL900.
It was VERY hot to the touch 10 min after I pulled it out of the bag and not even plugged in. (Like 90 deg out and a lot of sun).
I did toss a towel over it for a bit, but really it didn't help too much.

Anyway, worked flawlessly cranking thru a SWR 410. Not a hiccup at all.
 
That switch is for the DI (XLR) output. It determines how hot the signal is - Line level being the stronger signal. Some mixers can't handle this signal strength on an XLR input.

Thanks.
My only other experience with a DI is my WalkAbout which has a DI Level control, which I have always just set at about half and let the sound guy take it from there.
 
Would I be right in thinking GB settled on the stock tubes because they give the desired tone, or just because they are cheap tubes.

When you build an amp like this, you have to make sure that it is designed so that a decent sounding, reliable, reasonably priced, and readily available tube would work well in the amp. They didn't settle, tube choice was part of the design process.
 
I am by no means an expert, but here are my experiences with tubes, used with a Mesa Boogie Buster, Fender Bassman 50, Ampeg B15, and a number of Genz Benz heads that use tubes...

For new tubes, I like thetubestore.com. They usually have good advice if you have an idea of what you want to accomplish, and have a good selection of tubes at reasonable prices. There are more places to get tubes than you might think, both new, NOS, and used. thetubedepot.com, and Euro Tubes both have good selections and reasonable prices as well. I've never dealt with either, but have heard lots of good things about both, and Bob at Euro Tubes is generally regarded as being very knowledgeable.

As a standard, cost efficient, and durable tube, I like the Tung Sol 12ax7 reissue. It works well in a number of different amps, and is relatively inexpensive at $15. A trio of these and a pair of TAD power tubes were the shizzle in my bassman amp, and Tung Sols were also my first call replacement for my GBE750 and 1200. They tended to be a little on the clean side of neutral and punchy, which seems to work best for my tone preferences.

As for the Streamliner, I have tried the following:

Phillips JAN 12ax7 NOS (early 80's)
- warm, clean, with a little aggression
Sylvania 3 Mica 5751 (1962)
- warm, low gain
Sylvania 3 Mica 12ax7 (early 60's, matched)
- warm and buttery
RCA 3 Mica 5814A (1958, matched)
- a little warm, very clean, very low gain
TungSol 12ax7
- somewhat neutral, clean

My preferred set up for the moment is the RCA 5814A tubes in V1 and V2and a Phillips JAN 12ax7 in V3. This group of tubes seems to give the best variety of available tone, and provides rock solid, tight, punchy, and deep bass. Frankly, I am surprised how good the Phillips tube sounds in the midrange socket - I figured one of the older Sylvania tubes would provide the warmth a signature vintage sound I was looking for, but the Phillips tube seems better at bringing out the specific mid voice of any given bass.

The 5814A tubes provide cleanliness and punch in V1 and V2. The low gain configuration allows the pre control to be turned up to maximize the signal from the instrument, and gives tight bass (as mentioned) and sweet top end.

I had a conversation via PM earlier on with either Hasbeen or Agedhorse (yet another reason to love GB), and the concern was that mixing and matching tubes with differing bandwiths and gain structures may have undesirable sonic effects (Andy, Roger, please jump in here if I'm getting this wrong). This seemed to be an issue with certain tube combinations, but it is likely just as dependent on bass and cab choice, as well as sonic preferences.

I would suggest trying to remember a couple of things...

1. I did not pay - and nor will you - mega bucks for any of these old tubes. $40 is about top end of what I laid out, and ebay is a pretty good source.
2. Changing tubes is fun if you're into it, and dead easy with a little care. Try to use an old t-shirt or something so as not to get finger grease on the tube.
3. Changing tubes is not necessary. The supplied Ruby tube is a proven, reliable, inexpensive, sonically viable, and easily obtainable tube. If it sounds good to you, why worry?
4. As has been stated before, this is a tube amp. There are 3 tubes in this thing, and you must get used to the fact that tubes will fail periodically, and will need replacement. Best to have some extras on hand, and know how to do the job so as not to get stuck unnecessarily with a non-functional amp. Just sayin'...

At the risk of repeating myself, I was excited about the prospect of being able to "tune" this amp for my own preferences. So far, I've enjoyed the experience, and am very happy with the sound I've been able to get. I think tube rolling is very much part of the fun with this amp, especially since preamp tubes are relatively inexpensive. Of course, YMMV.

Thanx for posting this.
I was pushed for time yesterday as I needed to go to the funeral home. My Sons Mother In Law passed away.


I too had tried the 5814A in the Streamliner. I used one in V1 and it yields a bit of extra 3d ness to the clean tone. Please understand when trying lower gain tubes in the Streamliner the OD might go away. With a 5814A in V1 your not going to get any distortion.

I had not thought of trying one in V2 but after esoxhntr told me of why he tried this it made sense. A number of folks want the Bass tamed down some in the Streamliner and this is a good place to do it since V2 gets the Bass and Treble EQ section and it has just occured to me by having a 12ax7 in V3 effectively pushes the amp back towards flatness by reducing the gain at Bass and Treble and bringing it back up in the Mid section.

The Tube I was fortunate enough to score that I'm using in V3 is an 08/09 Tech Tube Blackburn E813CC tube. It is a shame Blackburn tried building the modern Mullard and went Bankrupt. You will never see any of these as only small amounts were produced and the folks that have them will not let them go.

I wish I could figure out how to make a PDF into a photo and I'd post the info up from these.

If Fender could buy the designs and start building them, that'd be great.
 
Think ya'll are using the word settled differently.

One as "having made a final decision"

And the other as "having given up and used a whatever answer"



Honestly, I think the stock tubes sound great. Experimenting with them should more be for fun, than any real need.
 
I'd bet Genz chose those tubes as the best combination of tone and consistent reliability across units.

This is exactly what we did. Plus an additional selection criteria was the mechanical integrity and freedom from mechanical noise and microphonics whch dropped a few otherwise nice tubes completely out ofthe running.

Tube reliability is a huge challenge, there were some other viable tubes but with MUCH higher failure rates which made them a "non-option". When you go through many thousands of tubes a year, reliability is a very important criteria. Cost plays a small part in selecting a tube actually.
 
bout that tube thing but I do own a STM-900 and a NeoPak. I thought I read a post in one of these threads where a TBer says "be sure you have the right tool..." Did he mean to pull the tubes? I thought they just can be pulled/installed semi-gently by a couple fingers. Did I misread that?

And not being a tube-roller at all, I did buy 3 tubes from a TBer over a year ago. That was to try them in my Neopak, with the one pre tube it has, that hasn't happened yet. But so I'm clear these 3 pre-tubes in the 900 are all of the 12AX7's variety?

So that I if I had to, I can use either the, Tung Sol, Sylvania or Mullard I bought from him back then in my 900/Neopak in a pinch if one went out?

Maybe I'll stick each one in my Neopak to be sure they work and see if maybe they do alter the tone much at all. Well, I'll try that one day soon. :rollno: yeah right.
 
:hmm:

If they haven't settled does that mean they are still experimenting?

Originally Posted by KsPiNeSh
I'd bet Genz chose those tubes as the best combination of tone and consistent reliability across units.

This is what I meant, but he said it better. I'm also guessing that GB had the tube chosen well before the production amps were built so they could still tweak the voicing if need be.
 
Hello all,
Currently don't have any stores that I could compare streamliner with tone hammer 500.
any experience that can be shared between these two good amp?

I was thinking of combining GB Strmlnr 600 with the Aguilar? what do you think?
by the way, which one sounds more pleasant to play at home setting, 2x8" speaker,2x10" or 1x12"
thanks
 
Im convinced it is impossible to thermal a Genz amp..
Not too many this season yet.. .. But last summer i was doing an outdoor show in hot Texas summer sun.. I was stage left the sun was coming across the roof of the venue... Sun was beating down on the black amp casing on my Shuttle 9 for two hours before show time... The outside air was over 100 close to 104... and the black amp chassis was baking hot sitting at idle from the sun beating on it... and i mean baking hot!!
I was running a 4 ohm load and wound up playing loudly ... the amp did not even flinch. flawless.... I never worry about it anymore at all...


So, quick gig report....
Out door festival.
My luck I was on the stage left.
In the direct sun.
As was my SL900.
It was VERY hot to the touch 10 min after I pulled it out of the bag and not even plugged in. (Like 90 deg out and a lot of sun).
I did toss a towel over it for a bit, but really it didn't help too much.

Anyway, worked flawlessly cranking thru a SWR 410. Not a hiccup at all.
 
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