Genz Benz Streamliner Pt 7.....

[Red Planet]

Excuse me, but what's 'the classic TB tone?

As I've said all along,& this IS the last time. I've used all tube amps all my life, or as you say 'classic tube amp tone'. I just don't think the STL sounds like this-to me.YMMV. Tho I do like it's tone.
I agree, if we all had the same tone..... :-/ But I don't quite understand this Classic TB tone comment. Please enlighten me!

I certainly hope you ain't taking any of this personally, it's just my experiences, my ears etc. & I'm stating my experiences for-hopefully some help & maybe it'll help any others who MAY have similar probs, some who have pm'd me re.
Last time for this too, I DO like the STL inherent tone-hence my stating that I WANT to make this work. So I don't think I've gotten the 'wrong amp'.
I like a nice 'vintage' tone-as I've gotten outta my tube amps for so long.
No way do I like, nor want, a tone that is all thin & trebley.
I agree, thank God we all hear things differently!
As you can hopefully see, I AM making progress,& AM determined to make this work. I'm getting there I think.
Have a nice night sleep & 'mornin' ;-p

I dont take any of it personal and I hope you dont as well.

The TB tone is a common agreement we should have a mid forward tone. The belief that the bass must sound like a guitar to be heard.

Also for the last time you obviously would not know tube tone if it bit you in the patooty. The Streamlier is EQed very similar to most classic tube heads and the controls resemble most simple controls on your classic tube heads. Actually they are a little more adustable than say your Fender Bassman but very similar in layout to an Ampeg. Ithink where they differ is the amount of power on hand. Most tube amps can not come close.


BTW for the coomment way back there from someone else. A differing opinion does not constitue Hyperbole.

This is a simple subject. It's obvious you need a flatter tone and I believe something in the classic AMP range would better suite. Amps like Eden and the like would fit the bill in this situation much better.

But OK beat that dead horse.

 

[Musicman20]

Great to hear the Ray 5 worked Rod!

 

[rodl2005]

I ain't taking it personally but the way you say ' you obviously wouldn't know tube tone if it bit you....' I find that rather silly as I've been using All tube amps all my life???
So,i certainly do 'know' their sound. You do seem to be upset that I don't find your latest class D amp to not sound like one.
No matter, as I say. Have made progress , & am getting to like it.
There's nothing I like less than the clean Eden tone, or a guitar sounding tone. Sure, bass is & should be bass.
We seem to have our wires crossed
, ' tis all.

 

[rodl2005]

Great to hear the Ray 5 worked Rod!

Thanx. Yep the ray5 worked well on Sat.nite.
I adjusted the pup of my Lakland P5 earlier today & it has tamed things nicely. Went well at our gig tonite. As I said, getting there!!

 

[Red Planet]

Sorry I was kidding, funning with you (that was the Hyperbole).

I do think I touched on something back there. I think the biggest difference where the low end is concerned is the amount of power on tap.

With the Streamliner 900 there is way more clean power on tap than your average Tube amp and this is where the perceived extra amount of low could be from. With a tube amp the low end may compress more as you crank it. Where as the Streamliner does compress some but maintains Thor's hammer all the way up to the top.

A good example of this might be a gig I was on a couple years ago. There were two bands and two bass rigs. I was using a Shuttle 9.0 and the other guy was using an SVT WITH THE Pro HLF. Though that HLF cab has major bottom the guy had his rig cranked to the point that it was distorting/compressing/mushing out. The Shuttle was solid and I was no where near cranking. IMO the Shuttle spanked the SVT. I pretty much play my Shuttle like the Streamliner is set flat. Low boost on, mid cut on, and the rest flat.

Also I do think all the pieces of the rig come into play too.

Most of the time I play a 53 reissue P Bass (or Upright) which has a very pronounced hi mid karang that cuts through well (whether I want it to or not) and most of the time I play through one or two Bergantino HT112ER cabs.

Anywho it works for me.

. You do seem to be upset that I don't find your latest class D amp to not sound like one.

Nope, I have told you several times now you have the wrong amp for you. I'm not pushing these amps just stating my opinion.

 

[John D Harris]

... so a big range of tones on call. Amazing how an EBMM STINGRAY 5 does such a great job in the latter dept.

YUP!!!

 

[wateroftyne]

Here's a recording I made last night of the drummer & I playing through some changes during last night's soundcheck.

It's a Precision with flats, so it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I like it.

Clicky clicky click...

 

[mwbonsall]

^ Very nice!

Mark

 

[ErnieD]

ya just gotta dial it in or get lucky. Last nite was my third gig with ST-900 & TB153 cab, '08 Am St P5 w/flats. I was def dialed in last nite. Mighta been the room, new club for us, I felt the room was very tight sounding compared to other clubs we gig. Not sure I can explain it to y'all, just what my ears felt/heard. Female singer, guitar, keys (with loud n low, Hammond B3 type simul-tone), good blues drummer n me.

First gig with new cab (TB153) was with a new band a couple weeks ago. Again, P5 and 900 head, it went well but this band has very good volume control, so I did not push the head or the cab that nite. Sound was very clean from me.

Second gig with occaisional band I gig with, loud vocalist and guiturd, same blues drummer as my reg band n me. I used my JoBo 5er w/DR Neons just for a change. Man, I was moving knobs left n right, all nite long trying to get a good volume and just cut thru the mix. Mighta been the room but I'm thinking the Jazz 5er is not that hot with the Lakland pups or something going on with this bass that I use it less and less for gigs. Maybe its those damn glowing strings.

Last nite, I used more bass knob than ever but it still was from 11:00 - 1:00 depending on tune we did. I was using all three settings on the mid-freq knob, rarely do that. I had vol/gain/vol mostly at noon; mid/treble @ 3:00 & 2:00 off n on. The rig just worked last nite, everything I dialed in worked. I rarely get that tube breakup that many say they easily find. When I dug in on a last song solo, I could hear it, very nicely. The lows were very low n tight. Sure the B string on my P5 not as nice as my Laklands but it did well last nite in that room.

Band said they really dug it, its the first time I used this rig with my regular blues/rock band. Heck, even my wife said, the bass sounds real good out here. She still asks, "you play bass right?" So that's a def compliment for her. They sat about 20' or so from band. I think they were feeling that gut-punch I get here at home at about 15' from my cab when I practice at home.

Anyway, I've been abit under-whelmed by the 900+TB153 at first two gigs with other bands. Last nite with my regular band and maybe cuz we just jibe well as players by now, this rig will be my go to rig when we gig. New room/club coming up in a couple weeks; we'll see if I can dial in perfection again. It's a process man. But I'm mostly enjoying that. Hang in there y'all....its' in there. As per my avatar, yeah I can beat a dead horse for awhile.

 

[Red Planet]

Nice clip WF.

Ernie I think you head on a good point. I did an outside gig last year at Turner field in the (blacktop) parking lot. The was hardly no low end at all coming from my rig. I had to crank the lows.

Fast forward to a gig a did in an Amphitheater with a huge wooden stage and boom city. I put my cabs up on a stand and never could get the goldy locks tone. I would either not have enough low end or turn it up a little and too get much.

 

[ErnieD]

that was a nice sounding clip up there, sorta like mine sounds but with a Low B now and then.

I posted this same reply in a Avatar 3 way design thread and rpsands stated many have noticed a nice change as the 3015LF breaks in. This was the third gig with this new TB153 cab so I'm hoping he's right and it stays sounding this nice from now on.

 

[rodl2005]

Sorry I was kidding, funning with you (that was the Hyperbole).

I do think I touched on something back there. I think the biggest difference where the low end is concerned is the amount of power on tap.

With the Streamliner 900 there is way more clean power on tap than your average Tube amp and this is where the perceived extra amount of low could be from. With a tube amp the low end may compress more as you crank it. Where as the Streamliner does compress some but maintains Thor's hammer all the way up to the top.

A good example of this might be a gig I was on a couple years ago. There were two bands and two bass rigs. I was using a Shuttle 9.0 and the other guy was using an SVT WITH THE Pro HLF. Though that HLF cab has major bottom the guy had his rig cranked to the point that it was distorting/compressing/mushing out. The Shuttle was solid and I was no where near cranking. IMO the Shuttle spanked the SVT. I pretty much play my Shuttle like the Streamliner is set flat. Low boost on, mid cut on, and the rest flat.

Also I do think all the pieces of the rig come into play too.

Most of the time I play a 53 reissue P Bass (or Upright) which has a very pronounced hi mid karang that cuts through well (whether I want it to or not) and most of the time I play through one or two Bergantino HT112ER cabs.

Anywho it works for me.




Nope, I have told you several times now you have the wrong amp for you. I'm not pushing these amps just stating my opinion.

I don't agree with that last statement. Only I can tell me that really! & TOTALLY agree with you re the SVT > 410HLF combo- I REALLY don't like that combination. heck I didn't even like that cab with ANY amp I tried it with !!!!
But - Cool. I've actually used & liked your sample settings for the Shuttle.
But again I don't think I've got the wrong amp. I've said many times - am getting there..... I'm not the kind to buy on whims, & get rid of the same....
I've said many times, I LIKE the sound of the amp, but was having trouble cutting thru the mix in all 3 bands I play in, & ALL members of the the bands I play in have commented on the "Muddiness" - their words- even the Sound Engineer said the same.
SO.... I've been working on getting that right, & making progress.
I think it works best thru 1x12" cabs myself actually. Sadly I don't have the HT Bergs. Just a AE112, but it sounded great thru that last nite.
And sounded Bloody good thru the AE212 on Sat. nite, with the "ray5 just not the P bass.
So last nite I used the same P bass after lowering the bass side pup a li'l, & raising the other a fraction. It ALL helped.
Oh & BTW my setting last nite were BASS @ 10.30-11, MID -mainly middle setting- @ 2 o'clock, Treble @ 10.30-11 (it was a blues/jazz type gig.... )

If, after 6 months of using the STL-600 I still have trouble, then I'll admit defeat, but in the last 2 weeks I've gone from EVERYONE in the bands I play in saying it's too muddy, to being pretty damn pleased with it.
Thats Progress. Hey I might go into politics... Oh no hang on, I'm a cr@p liar.
Glad we're on the same page now at least. But you ain't gonna talk me outta the amp. I DO like it's 'own' sound & I'll get it to where I want it or my names 80lb Ampeg SVTII

 

[rodl2005]

Ernie D... Thats Funny re your Wife!!! My wife's the singer in 2 of my bands.
I know what ya mean. The room we played on Sat nite is atrocious for acoustics & especially BASS. I usually have to cut the bass in there anyway, so the fact that I was able to get the STL-600 to even sound good in there, is testament to what I've been talking about- PROGRESS.... We, the people, have..... - oops

I did 5 gigs last week- particularly busy one for me, & used the STL-600 for ALL of 'em. Only ONE gig was I 'fiddling' all nite to try & get a sound. The Sat nite 'bad room' isn't it either. I KNOW what's needed in there, & managed to get it darn good- for there. You know the set up BIG F.O.H PA system set up WAY too close to the stage, big F......n SUBS right under that & they reverberate the whole hollow stage........ + the S.E. has everything SO LOUD............... :-/
At least now we've got a better S.E. who trims the bottom end. Heck we play dance music from all eras, not HOUSE or techno (well A bit of ol' house might need a lick of paint that house too) So BOOMIN bass isn't needed for our style of music. Good solid bass is, not SUB bass, no mids & HI highs.... Don't want us to sound like some kids car stereo ;-)
So bass really blooms in there, - I NOW take just (usually) a 212, & have it pointing up at me head, so don't have to have a lotta actual bass volume.
The STL is impressing me more & more. Still, & no matter HOW many ppl tell me this, it doesn't sound like an all tube amp to me. Sounds like a very well made hybrid amp. & one of the only hybrids I've ever liked.
In my 30+ yrs of gigging, I've used ALL tube amps up until this year- when my back's fallen apart :-( & tried LOTS of S.S. amps, hybrids etc over the yrs. NONE ever impressed me until the LMII. Which I still think is a great li'l amp. Then the <esa Walkabout blew everything outta the water, Then GB comes onboard (for me at least) with the Shuttle- great, flexible li'l beastie. Then the STL-600.
So out of the probably 100 or so S.S. amps & hybrid amps only ONE S.S. amp & 3 hybrids have EVER 'done it' for me. The STL IS one.
I'm gonna persevere with it, not outta ANY reson except that I like its sound.

 

[ErnieD]

noone here can ever say your not giving this amp a chance. Hell your being dang diligent I'd say. Good on you mate.

Now, in the 3-4 bands I'm giging with now, NO PA support for bass. I mean voice(s) and kick drum in PA only, using two 15"s on stix kinda PA. Of course these bands all book lounge/nite club/sports bar, 100-150 or so seat type club gigs so overall this setup works. So I'm not dealing with huge PA, soundpersons, fighting subs for lows type issues. I just have to fill the room with bass-goodness at each gig.

But we all have to deal with different issues as bassists. At least I feel as if I'm the only one concerned about volume/dynamics/frequencies, etc as I'm the only one that seems to bitch about it in my bands. Hey, I'm trying to apply what I've learned here and just educate them on it at the same time. Doesn't always take though.

 

[rodl2005]

Thanx Ernie D. Sheesh, I love doing gigs like that! They're my faves. Letting your own rig BE the sound out front! So many of ours have a PA system & sound engineer, so your rig is just your own monitor really. Got a few coming up like that soon, so, am looking forward to them.
Yeah, as I've said, I really like the STL's actual tone-hence me WANTING to work with it. I ain't one to jump on any band-wagons ;-) & the ONLY reason I bought this amp over another was the great reviews of it & how it did the 'vintage' thing better than most others.
Oh, no, -other reasons.......
GB's great CS. My back has cr@pped out. & great price. So, not asking much? ;-) eh ??
If my back wasn't stuffed, I'd still have my SVTII, for sure. Loved that amp!
Am absolutely dreading the fact I might have to sell my much loved NV215 :-( Damn band members have usually packed up & left by the time I need a lift with a cab.
But-definitely getting there with the STL-600. Each gig seems to be getting better, so that's a positive imo.
Thanx again,
Rod

 

[bring the noise]

I know its probally in this mega thread some but anyone have experience with the 900 and a 810e? Wondering how the big cabs sound with this amp? All the clips of the amp I've heard it sounds awesome! Thanks.

 

[Aussie Mark]

Wondering how the big cabs sound with this amp?

One of my cabs is an Epifani UL610, and I've been using it with my STL900 ever since I bought it. I did gigs on Friday and Saturday night with the STL900 and the UL610 - sounded huge as usual. One gig was a sold out 400 seat auditorium show with PA support, the other was a bar gig with vocal PA only for 250 people. This amp works great with any of my cabs - my other cabs are Epi UL210, Mesa Powerhouse 2x12, Mesa Powerhouse 1x15.

 

[smeet]

Thanx Ernie D. Sheesh, I love doing gigs like that! They're my faves. Letting your own rig BE the sound out front! So many of ours have a PA system & sound engineer, so your rig is just your own monitor really. Got a few coming up like that soon, so, am looking forward to them.

If the problem with your sound is the PA (monitors or FOH), is there a chance you are feeding the pre-eq signal to the house? If so, flip the switch and see if it helps. A long shot, but just in case...

 

[rodl2005]

If the problem with your sound is the PA (monitors or FOH), is there a chance you are feeding the pre-eq signal to the house? If so, flip the switch and see if it helps. A long shot, but just in case...

Yeah worth a try I s'pose. I'm sending him a pre signal in that particularly bad room, rest of the time I usually send it post.
Reason I send pre in that room is that there is such a big bass bloom in there that my onstage eq is usually Very different to what I'd like out front.
Just saying I'm looking forward to playing a smaller gig, where we use our onstage sound to be the actual sounds for the room. I like playing like that. Seems more in touch with the audience.

 

[andertone]

funny you talk about the wife in the crowd with her comments: mine has been listening since the great multiple Showman and K140K era to the present, no better litmus test, and she knows about tube crunch and the way "it's supposed to sound", how lucky can I be (Streamliner 600 Berg Mini stack)