Not about tubes. The audience focus is on strings. If you've got lo riders at a sunbeam gig it's going to be a long night.
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Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling
- Thread starter Joe Smithberger
- Start date
Not about tubes. The audience focus is on strings. If you've got lo riders at a sunbeam gig it's going to be a long night.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
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- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
have a peak...
Well, I guess I just joined the tube-swapping club.
I tried a few swaps shortly after I got my Streamliner, but didn't hear anything that really made me sit up and take notice.
Still, I've continued to struggle with the tone controls. My SL900 is great for warm, smooth tones, but with the low end dialed back to where I need it, there's not a lot of range left when I want a bit more bite and gank.
Recent posts about 12AU7's got me thinking- AU's aren't normally part of my tube vocabulary, because I mostly work on low-powered guitar amps that don't call for them.
So, I picked up a JJ ECC82 for V2 this afternoon. Bingo! Still enough gain through the preamp to get distortion with the boost button in, but meanwhile, the treble and especially the bass controls are more manageable. The midrange control is also more effective, now that the bass and treble are in proportion.
It's not a character transplant- the Streamliner still won't gank out like a G-K, but still, it's different enough to be useful. My non-muso wife noticed, which is my yardstick for significant change. I'll see how it works on the gig on Sunday night.
I tried a few swaps shortly after I got my Streamliner, but didn't hear anything that really made me sit up and take notice.
Still, I've continued to struggle with the tone controls. My SL900 is great for warm, smooth tones, but with the low end dialed back to where I need it, there's not a lot of range left when I want a bit more bite and gank.
Recent posts about 12AU7's got me thinking- AU's aren't normally part of my tube vocabulary, because I mostly work on low-powered guitar amps that don't call for them.
So, I picked up a JJ ECC82 for V2 this afternoon. Bingo! Still enough gain through the preamp to get distortion with the boost button in, but meanwhile, the treble and especially the bass controls are more manageable. The midrange control is also more effective, now that the bass and treble are in proportion.
It's not a character transplant- the Streamliner still won't gank out like a G-K, but still, it's different enough to be useful. My non-muso wife noticed, which is my yardstick for significant change. I'll see how it works on the gig on Sunday night.
tekdiver500ft said:
Well, the move from a 12AX7 to a 12AU7 is the most drastic change you can make within the family. The 12AU is a low-gain, high-power driver tube.
Swapping between AX/AT/AY/5751, and especially between different brands of AX's, is a much more subtle change.
Somehow I thought the AT7 was the lowest gain in the group (could be mistaken, though), but am aware that the AU is a very dramatic change. I've been told by several people that they swapped in an AU7 to V2 (based partly on my statement that it was the right swap, and that it controlled the bass & made it more mid-forward), and it made no difference at all in their amp. That's why I'm glad someone else heard the same results I did.
Gain factor for the 12AU7 is lowest at around 20, 12AY7 is 45, 12AT7 is 60, 5751 is very close at 70, and 12AX7 is 100.
But there's more involved than that. They all have different bias requirements for optimum performance, 12AT7's are used in radio equipment as well as audio because they have a wider frequency bandwidth than AX7's, AU7's have a 2.5 watt output vs the 1 watt output of an AX7...
The cool thing is that preamps are pretty forgiving, and you're pretty much free to swap in any of these tubes, as long as they're in good condition.
Just got back from my regular Sunday evening gig- an "unplugged" style semi-acoustic duo. It's a medium-sized hall in the basement of a church, with low ceilings, linoleum floors and absolutely no sound treatment. Getting a clear and solid tone in this room is enough to give you nightmares.
I really liked my 900 with the AU7 in V2. For the first time since I got my Streamliner, I wasn't diddling around with EQ trying to tighten up my tone, and this was without my Empress ParaEQ. Gain at 3 o'clock, Volume at noon, Bass at 10 o'clock, upper mids at around 1 or 2 o'clock, treble roughly straight up, Master almost off.
This is in contrast to other weeks, where I had the bass and mids at roughly 9 o'clock, and the treble all over the place, trying to get a little more definition without a lot of fret noise.
One caveat: You have to remember that V2 buffers a Baxandall 2-band tone control. Sure, the low to mid-bass hump is reduced with the 12AU7, but so is the one at the treble end of the spectrum.
With the AU7, you have to turn the treble control up a fair bit from where you used to run it, as well.
I really liked my 900 with the AU7 in V2. For the first time since I got my Streamliner, I wasn't diddling around with EQ trying to tighten up my tone, and this was without my Empress ParaEQ. Gain at 3 o'clock, Volume at noon, Bass at 10 o'clock, upper mids at around 1 or 2 o'clock, treble roughly straight up, Master almost off.
This is in contrast to other weeks, where I had the bass and mids at roughly 9 o'clock, and the treble all over the place, trying to get a little more definition without a lot of fret noise.
One caveat: You have to remember that V2 buffers a Baxandall 2-band tone control. Sure, the low to mid-bass hump is reduced with the 12AU7, but so is the one at the treble end of the spectrum.
With the AU7, you have to turn the treble control up a fair bit from where you used to run it, as well.
Rather than spending to ship from Europe Antique Electricle supply has most tubes and is in the US.
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When I'm using my good tubes it's at home, my Univalve going into a 4 12 cabinet with Celestion G12 H speakers. If I'm playing with people it's a Marshall ValveState combo amp. Great amp and it weighs about 1/4 of what the UniStack weighs.
The UniValve is for those onanistic when it's all about me. Yeah I can tell. But you put anything through a soundman a mic a PA into a room and no one can tell.
The UniValve is for those onanistic when it's all about me. Yeah I can tell. But you put anything through a soundman a mic a PA into a room and no one can tell.
So where does the 7025 fit in as far as gain is concerned? I'm just trying to learn all I can about these different preamp tubes, and this thread has been very informative.
The original 7025 was just a low-noise variant of the 12AX7. As far as I know, there were no other significant differences.
It gets trickier when you start talking about current-production tubes, as there's a lot of snake oil being sold these days. For example, at one point I had trouble getting a Tweed Deluxe copy dialed in, because Sovtek's 5Y3 rectifier turned out to be an awful lot like their GZ34, except for the label...
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
7025= 12AX7, ECC83. in the old days, the 7025 was the low noise, mil spec version, but nowadays there really isn't such a thing.
That's kinda what I was thinking just wasn't sure. I went to the Antique Electronic Supply site and noticed they have TAD 7025's. I thought 7025's were just older versions of the 12AX7's and didn't know that they were currently being produced. I have two NOS 7025's in my Streamliner now and wonder how close the new ones would be to these?
LoveThatBass
Supporting Member
I am new to the forum and bought a Streamliner 600 about just over a week ago. Very nice quiet amp, however the bass as a little over the top and somewhat flabby. I had some tubes stored from previous amps an projects and really forgot what I had. I found an Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 EH in a box with no more than an hour's use and was purchased in 2006. Also found a NOS GE Jan 5751 and a USA made Tung Sol 5751. The EH is good but not as good as the stock tube in V1 slot. I tried both 5751's and while good the GE is darker sounding than the Tung Sol which really opened this amp up and made the bass tighter and more controllable. I am going to leave it at this configuration for now as I really like it. Clear, tight and articulate sounding.
Very cool. A 12AU7WA in V2 will make it more mid-forward, too, if that's of interest to you.
