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Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling

#181
svtb15 said:
I honestly dont see the advantages of tube rolling in amps when most people are using the amp on a Medium to LOUD electric gig...
I have great ears.. and the difference is so negligible if any at all, that it is hardly worth the effort or the money .. The only one making out are the tube vendors. IMO.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. People talk about differences in tubes and I can't hear them, either.

(long story warning) My first experience with tube rolling was in 82. I wanted to retube my V4B because all the experts in Guitar Player said you should retube at least once a year. My dad told me I was nuts. He worked for the Navy repairing flight sims and other stuff and had tons of tube experience but not with musical gear, and he said just change them when they go bad and don't listen to the nonsense. I told him that the experts said it makes all the world's difference in your tone to retube every year, and I went to the store (electronics stores actually carried tubes back then) and got all new tubes. Put them in, tried it, then took them out, put the old ones back in, and returned the new ones except I kept a couple spares.

And to this day I can't tell the difference between an old Amperex 12DW7 and a JJ 12DW7. I can tell when I look at them that the Amperex is built way better, and I can tell when a tube is on its way out, but that's about it. Enough folks who have the knowledge and experience tell me they do hear differences so maybe I don't know what to listen for, but I'm not going to sweat it. As long as it's running to spec, that's all I care about.
 
#182
I think what you hear depends a lot on how/where you play, and what cabs you plug your amp into.

I haven't tried a 5751 in v1, and I went back to the stock tubes after fooling around with a few in my 900.

But I hear pretty stark differences when I roll tubes in most guitar amps, perhaps because in that application I spend a lot of time on the border between clean and dirty...
 
#184
Wow.

Now I understand why Jimmy's opinion about tone has always seemed limited. :D

I can tell a difference in the tone between a JJ ecc803 and a JJ ecc83. I can tell the difference between an New Sensor EH 12ax7 and Tung Sol reissue 12ax7 and these are the same tube except for the getter. When comparing a real Mullard and a current production tube there are miles of difference in the tone, microphonics, noise, and many other factors.

I do agree there ain't a lot of difference in tone with the Hybrid Amps swapping tubes but in an all tube Tube Amp there is a world of difference.
 
#187
When in a studio situation. though great speakers and great amps, in a controlled room, without other things playing, people talking , cheering flash cameras going off. Maybe. but on a gig?

Gain things i can see and can hear.. But a different metal Getter??? thats almost conspiracy theory stuff. and I Love conspiracy theories:D
 
#190
Ok.. If you notice thats all that matters... My ears are real good.. and have used protection since the 70s.... And I am pretty sure that i can not tell the difference in tone between different brands of 12ax7 tubes... A 12Au7 and a 12ax7 YES.. but different brands.. You guys are better than me in that area
 
#192
"But are you going to notice it on a gig? I mean really? And does anyone care? just askin"

I'm certain no one else cares ;-) That's for sure!
But if you have quality tubes working properly and you have your gain and EQ set for the sweet spot, the touch, response and sound are different.
Make that - better!
Now if you play in a super loud band and use effects I get you wouldn't hear much if any difference. But I'm lucky to play mostly medium volume jazz gigs w cool players who leave lots of space.
Cheers!
 
#193
To my ear, there are huge differences between some brands of the same tube. I rolled a ton of them through my SVT-3 Pros, and they all responded differently. Once I have some extra scratch (whatever that is), I'll get an NOS 5751 to try in my V1. Perhaps nobody else will hear it in the mix in a live situation, but I will, and my tone is for me, and I play better when I have a tone I like.
 
#194
I understand the feel thing that you talk about..

Because i like push the input of the tube to get it to squash ever so slightly on some gigs...... That part i totally get..


.
woolysock said:
"But are you going to notice it on a gig? I mean really? And does anyone care? just askin"

I'm certain no one else cares ;-) That's for sure!
But if you have quality tubes working properly and you have your gain and EQ set for the sweet spot, the touch, response and sound are different.
Make that - better!
Now if you play in a super loud band and use effects I get you wouldn't hear much if any difference. But I'm lucky to play mostly medium volume jazz gigs w cool players who leave lots of space.
Cheers!
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#197
Generally speaking, most people in the audience won't notice.

But some people will.

Other musicians and music lovers who really have a passion for music, will often notice great tones, sweet tone and tonal differences.

I used to think that no else really cared and that I was pretty much just obsessive and neurotic:D Which I still am.

But surprisingly, more people than I thought do hear and appreciate great tone and tonal differences.

Even if that's just one or two people per gig.

But ultimately, I think my tone obsession is about satisfying my own creative and obsessive disposition and appeasing my appreciation of tone and texture, in bass, guitar and all instruments (including vocals) in a song/piece of music. And if it makes me happy and satisfies the creative itch: I don't care if most other people think I'm nuts:D
 
#200
svtb15 said:
But are you going to notice it on a gig? I mean really? And does anyone care? just askin
Click to expand...

Same goes for strings; crowd and even some band mates would never notice old strings
The cover band guy who is slogging throught the same tired tunes night after night? I'd say it doesn't matter because no one is listening; even the player.

For the bassist who is trying to create and express an actual original idea? Yeah, he's listening and doesn't care about others; it's about his art or whatever you wnat to call it.

Certain amps are much more sensitive to tubes than others.
Never heard much difference in a 3 Pro or anything SWR; from China to old Tele's; they are just a gain stage with no tonal impact.

Walkabout's and some Ampeg's (assuming clean tone and professional speaker systems) I defineately hear a difference on a sane gig

If you're going to roll all you need is one used, original Tele or Amperex; a Mullard works but not quite as well for me.
IME, don't waste time with a whole bunch of different cheap Chinese firecrackers; they all suck.
 
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