• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling

#141
I need to get a good 5751 and try it. I'm going back to my 5814A for now as I just can not get the amount of gain I want without getting into overdrive territory and I like it squeaky clean.

I'm thinking a 5751 would be closer to the Goldilocks zone. Out of the hundreds of tubes I have I got zero 5751's. Who needs to trade away a couple of 5751?'s?
 
#146
My local shop had the Sovtek 5751, so I picked it up and tried it in V1 with positive results. Also swapped the stock ruby in V3 for a Mesa tube I had around and have been real happy with the results. Made the STM900 even better to my ear.
 
#148
boethius said:
JAN-Philips 5751
Decent tube for V1 at a decent price. I also use a Mullard reissue in the V3 slot...very warm and pleasant and a 12ax7wa in V2...or you can use the JJ that was in V1.
Click to expand...

I replaced the JJ in V1 a week or so back with a Sovtek LPS and liked the result. This evening, on a whim, I also replaced V2 with another Sovtek LPS I had lying around and then moved the OEM JJ that was stock in V1 to V3. Sounds quite a bit smoother, for lack of a better description. Then just for grins, I replace the JJ in V3 with an older Mesa Russian 12ax7 and BAM... I might have stumbled on something here. I'll have to wait until tomorrow when my 1st grade daughter is at school before I can kick up the volume, but it seems there is better definition and less of the "cloudiness", as some have called it, to the notes. I will say this for sure, the Streamliner really does seem to respond to tube changes.
 
#149
Limeman said:
I replaced the JJ in V1 a week or so back with a Sovtek LPS and liked the result. This evening, on a whim, I also replaced V2 with another Sovtek LPS I had lying around and then moved the OEM JJ that was stock in V1 to V3. Sounds quite a bit smoother, for lack of a better description. Then just for grins, I replace the JJ in V3 with an older Mesa Russian 12ax7 and BAM... I might have stumbled on something here. I'll have to wait until tomorrow when my 1st grade daughter is at school before I can kick up the volume, but it seems there is better definition and less of the "cloudiness", as some have called it, to the notes. I will say this for sure, the Streamliner really does seem to respond to tube changes.
Click to expand...

Don't know if our Mesa tubes are the same, but I tried different combos of the Ruby, JJ and my Mesa after putting the sovtek 5751 in V1 and settled with the mesa tube in V3. To my ear it seems changes to V1 and V3 are more significant than V2. I was happy before with the STM900 and AE112 stack but now I am ecstatic.
 
#150
Verified this afternoon that the Sovtek LPS + LPS + Mesa 12AX7A (V1+V2+V3) combo sounds flat out wonderful in my 900 through a GS112 at volume. I wasn't able to spend a ton of time with it, but first impression is that the tone controls seem to behave differently, a bit less extreme, more relaxed, would be my best description. Almost like the Q has been changed - possibly widened - or maybe the gain structure changed/reduced? As a reference, with the stock tubes, I was having to pull back significantly at 225Hz - to about 7 o'clock - to try to clean up the "mud" of an overpowering low-mid push I was getting through my GS cabs. With the LPS/Mesa combo, not only did I find myself comfortably able to set the 225Hz higher than before, but I was finally able to use some of the 600Hz and 2.5Kz as well, as they were no longer over-powering the tone. This is not a massive change, but significant enough that I can hear/feel it, and seems to have reawakened my hope for the STL900. It would appear I now have a bit more sonic flexibility than before, and to be honest, this is as close as the 900 has ever sounded to emulating some of the things I love about my Walkabout. I am left with a massive grin on my face. I have a gig on Saturday and will check the LPS/Mesa tube combo out. Should be interesting to see if what I'm hearing at home translates to the stage. l will keep this a secret from our sound man and see if he's able to notice a difference or not. The gig will have full FOH support in a medium sized venue, so he'll most likely be hearing only the DI from the 900. I'll report back what I find.

Oh... the stock Ruby in V3 also sounded very good with the LPS in V1 and V2. I'd say a bit more high-end "air" and a tad more aggressive sounding than the Mesa 12AX7A, but still better by far than the stock setup. Based on this experience with my Sovtek LPS tubes, I am putting in an order for a 5751 today to see what that does. I'm guessing I'm going to love a 5751 + LPS + Mesa or Ruby 12AX7A combo.

All this IMO of course, so your results may vary. ;)
 
#151
Welcome to the club Limeman...tube rolling can be very addictive!! And your are starting to see how dramatically tone can be affected by tube changes. I remember showing up to a pit orchestra gig I was filling in on for a friend with my SVT2 Pro and Eden 212 and 210 cabs...fielding lots of comments about this not being a heavy metal concert, etc...until intermission when I had more comments on how clean, articulate and delicious my tone was...I got a lot more call backs after that!
 
#152
Limeman said:
Verified this afternoon that the Sovtek LPS + LPS + Mesa 12AX7A (V1+V2+V3) combo sounds flat out wonderful in my 900 through a GS112 at volume. I wasn't able to spend a ton of time with it, but first impression is that the tone controls seem to behave differently, a bit less extreme, more relaxed, would be my best description. Almost like the Q has been changed - possibly widened - or maybe the gain structure changed/reduced? As a reference, with the stock tubes, I was having to pull back significantly at 225Hz - to about 7 o'clock - to try to clean up the "mud" of an overpowering low-mid push I was getting through my GS cabs. With the LPS/Mesa combo, not only did I find myself comfortably able to set the 225Hz higher than before, but I was finally able to use some of the 600Hz and 2.5Kz as well, as they were no longer over-powering the tone. This is not a massive change, but significant enough that I can hear/feel it, and seems to have reawakened my hope for the STL900. It would appear I now have a bit more sonic flexibility than before, and to be honest, this is as close as the 900 has ever sounded to emulating some of the things I love about my Walkabout. I am left with a massive grin on my face. I have a gig on Saturday to check the LPS/Mesa tube combo out. Should be interesting to see if what I'm hearing translates to the stage. I'll also keep this a secret from our sound man and see if he's able to notice a difference or not.

Oh... the stock Ruby in V3 also sounded very good with the LPS in V1 and V2. I'd say a bit more high-end "air" and a tad more aggressive sounding than the Mesa 12AX7A, but still better by far than the stock setup. Based on this experience with my Sovtek LPS tubes, I am putting in an order for a 5751 today to see what that does. I'm guessing I'm going to love a 5751 + LPS + Mesa or Ruby 12AX7A combo.

All this IMO of course, so your results may vary. ;)
Click to expand...

The Sovtek LPS in V1 was my fave too by far when I did my tube rolling. It seemed to add alot more dynamic clarity to my ears- significantly less mushy. For me it made the amp more useable without requiring an external EQ, but in the end the tone still just didn't grab me the way my Walkabout does. It still required very dramatic EQ post-tube change to fit OK in a loud mix, where the Walkabout fits like a glove with little to no coaxing. I am interested to see how you like yours in a gig context- I will readily admit that I am less of a boomin bass fan than many bassists, so it may be just the ticket for you. I laso never got a chance to try the tubes from my Walkabout in there for good measure...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dietz
#153
sunbeast said:
The Sovtek LPS in V1 was my fave too by far when I did my tube rolling. It seemed to add alot more dynamic clarity to my ears- significantly less mushy. For me it made the amp more useable without requiring an external EQ, but in the end the tone still just didn't grab me the way my Walkabout does. It still required very dramatic EQ post-tube change to fit OK in a loud mix, where the Walkabout fits like a glove with little to no coaxing. I am interested to see how you like yours in a gig context- I will readily admit that I am less of a boomin bass fan than many bassists, so it may be just the ticket for you. I laso never got a chance to try the tubes from my Walkabout in there for good measure...
Click to expand...

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for just a moment and say that the WA doesn't even compare to the STL. The WA doesn't have nearly enough juice for what I'd call a loud mix. IMO it wouldn't approach volumes where boominess would be an issue, obviously depending on cabinet choice, to the extent that would need extreme eq to be remedied. I did put a Jan-Philips 5751 in V1, leaving V2 and V3 stock, which made the pre much more open and musical to my ear. I wish I had more tubes to roll, but I tried the JJ in V2 and V3 and didn't really notice a difference so I left the ruby's in there. I might give some of the Mullard re-issues a try and also the Sovtek if I end up with some cash after the holidays.

Now, I haven't owned the WA, primarily because it just didn't have the kind of headroom that I like. I have played one belonging to a friend, and that is what led me to this conclusion. It does sound fantastic at low volumes, particularly in the WA Scout combo. So I'm not saying that the STL is perfect out of the box either, just that it's a lot more amp than the WA -- more like the bigger M-pulse amps. Then again, the consensus seems to be that the 600 or 750 don't seem to have the same "magic" that the WA does.
 
#154
sunbeast said:
The Sovtek LPS in V1 was my fave too by far when I did my tube rolling. ...For me it made the amp more useable without requiring an external EQ, but in the end the tone still just didn't grab me the way my Walkabout does...
Click to expand...

This is hardly a surprise. Tube swapping is only going to make relatively minor changes in the overall tone of the amp, whereas the Walkabout has a drastically different EQ curve.

Both strike me as "character amps" with a strong pre-shape, but the Mesa differs in having a lot more sizzle in the upper midrange and treble, especially when set flat. As kai_ski points out, the Streamliner also packs a much bigger punch when paired with high-wattage cabs.
 
#155
A question for those of you who have been tube swapping. Are any of you playing a P with flats? I play a P and a ss jag both with flats through either a pair of Acme b112 flatwounds or an eminence b810 loaded svt 810e. Would I still notice the differences that you guys are, and if so would they seem as dramatic?
 
#156
3rdcurve said:
A question for those of you who have been tube swapping. Are any of you playing a P with flats? I play a P and a ss jag both with flats through either a pair of Acme b112 flatwounds or an eminence b810 loaded svt 810e. Would I still notice the differences that you guys are, and if so would they seem as dramatic?
Click to expand...

IMO, a Jan Phillips 5751 in V1 will impact the sound most dramatically no matter what you are playing. Again, IMO.
 
#157
kai_ski said:
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for just a moment and say that the WA doesn't even compare to the STL. The WA doesn't have nearly enough juice for what I'd call a loud mix. IMO it wouldn't approach volumes where boominess would be an issue, obviously depending on cabinet choice, to the extent that would need extreme eq to be remedied. I did put a Jan-Philips 5751 in V1, leaving V2 and V3 stock, which made the pre much more open and musical to my ear. I wish I had more tubes to roll, but I tried the JJ in V2 and V3 and didn't really notice a difference so I left the ruby's in there. I might give some of the Mullard re-issues a try and also the Sovtek if I end up with some cash after the holidays.

Now, I haven't owned the WA, primarily because it just didn't have the kind of headroom that I like. I have played one belonging to a friend, and that is what led me to this conclusion. It does sound fantastic at low volumes, particularly in the WA Scout combo. So I'm not saying that the STL is perfect out of the box either, just that it's a lot more amp than the WA -- more like the bigger M-pulse amps. Then again, the consensus seems to be that the 600 or 750 don't seem to have the same "magic" that the WA does.
Click to expand...

While the Walkabout on paper has less headroom, I never used the Streamliner in a use that the Walkabout wouldn't (and hasn't) covered in the past- the WA when paired with my Berg 610 has (just) enough juice to pair up against two guitarists and a heavy drummer. The driver tube gives it a voicing in the mids that intensifies the harder you push it, much like a tube amp. It is only 300 watts, but the voicing allows it to still be heard clearly in most loud mixes I would play in. The Streamliner, on the other hand, sounds pretty much the same no matter what volume I play it at, and I couldn't handle that "blurriness" at higher volumes. I get your point about a higher powered Walkabout likely needing a little more EQ'ing than the current version due to the extra heft the higher headroom would give (the reason I got rid of my Mesa M6 Carbine was because I found its lower end to get uncontrollable as well), and I agree- fortunately the Walkabout is not lacking in EQ sculptability in the same way as the Streamliner or M6. When I crank my Walkabout, I just use one of the 3 semi-parametrics to cut a bit out at 30-40Hz and WHAM!

Definitely different voices, but I've chosen mine. I'm also much happier with the ShuttleMax 9.2 I picked up after selling my Streamliner- totally different vibe than the WA or STL, but no problems finding a good tonal balance and punch in that amp for me!
 
#158
I'm with you on finding/using what works for you/me.

I would find a 6x10 defeating the purpose of what these heads are for. I used my Streamliner 900 this past weekend at two gigs with two Berg HT112ER cabs and the tone was smack daddy hard.

I used a Stingray Classic and boosted 800 Hz to about 2:00 oclock everything else was at noon.
 
#159
Well, here we go.

My first attempt to tube roll my Streamliner 600.

Replaced the stock tubes with....

V1: NOS 1961 Philips/Adzam branded 12AX7 (made in Holland)

V2 and V3: NOS 1961 Sylvania/Baldwin branded 12AX7

I know you folks have been preaching the 5751 in the V1 position, but I don't have any on hand. I'm using tubes that I have bought over the years and have been saving and storing in my closet.

She's warming up right now. We'll see how these sound:)
 
#160
John K - You listed V1 - Jan Phillips 5751, V2 - Amperex 12ax7, and V3 - Mullard ECC83

The tube depot has the Jan Phillips for around $30, the other two are $160 plus.

Do you think a reissue Amperex or mullard would suffice (around $20), or are there better cost effective tubes out there? I am looking to stay under $100 for the 3.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back