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Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling

#241
Quick question that may have been covered already but,im wanting a little less gain early on in my STL900s preamp section. I was gonna buy a Sovtek 5751 or 12au7 preamp tubes this friday and try some rolling,but is it the V1 and or V2 tube that make it "hot"? I can always push in the gain button later to find the crunchier tones,but for now im seeking more smooth,deep tones that im sure this amp is capable off producing. Ive worked with the EQ a bunch but think the V1 and V2 tubes could be swapped out for the results i need asap. I love this amp,but all this talk of tube rolling has me curious,thanks.
 
#242
A 5751 will of coarse provide less gain in V1 position and lend a little more clean headroom, however a 12AU7 used in V1 should provide a good amount of clean headroom. It will lower your overall volume level output quite a bit. I might try it on an STM-900 (where you might have quite a bit of expendable volume levels) but I fear it would cut the output volume of my STM-600 at bit too much. Since I do not turn my gain level above half anyway I still hear quite a bit of clean tone even with the Master at 3/4 and preamp volume between 1/2 and 2/3.
 
#243
Cool stuff,thanks LTB,i rolled the ruby to V!,JJ to V2,and an EH 12ax7 to V3 tonite and felt my STL900 had a bit more smooth response at higher volumes...Tmrw i shall grab a 12au7 and maybe a Sovet 5751 for some swapping in both V1 and V2 positions. But im not set on either till i can hear a difference in either position for my tonal goals with this amp. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this.
 
#244
sethro said:
Cool stuff,thanks LTB,i rolled the ruby to V!,JJ to V2,and an EH 12ax7 to V3 tonite and felt my STL900 had a bit more smooth response at higher volumes...Tmrw i shall grab a 12au7 and maybe a Sovet 5751 for some swapping in both V1 and V2 positions. But im not set on either till i can hear a difference in either position for my tonal goals with this amp. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this.
Click to expand...

Let me know what you find by using a 12AU7 in V1 and then in V2 slots please.
 
#245
Ok,so i got my hands on a EH 12au7,and a EH Gold series 5751 today. I tried both tubes in both V1 and V2 positions...The final results i liked best were with the 12au7 in V1 and the 5751 in the V2 spot. Keep in mind,i tested it on my lunch break on a stock 810e,like mine back home.(i work at GC) Much less preamp gain hitting the power amp,less peak light coming on at higher stage volumes. Ive also decided to go back to DR Fatbeams,SS strings,instead of the Dunlop nickels ive been on for the past year. I was thinking a brighter,clearer string with good mids would be a better fit for the STL900s naturally semi- scooped tone,bottom heavy tone...Tonite i have a gig at a local bar with no PA support for anything but the vocals and kickdrum. Kinda an acid test for my STL900,Ill report my results with the new tubes,string swap ive done. If this doesnt help get the tone im looking for,its back to the Ampeg SVT7pro,with a tube swap,ive learned alot about hybrid amps lately. Since ive owned the 7pro before,i know its got the right tone/cut i need. Its just not as warm and fat sounding,not as light,and simply not as cool as my STL900! Thanks for listening to my rant,lol.
 
#246
Im also CONVINCED Genz Benz's quality is far superior,compared to most Ampegs of late. The inside of my STL900 is a work of art,makes me nervous every time i open it up! I wish all bass heads had this kind of meticulous detail and overall worksmanship. But,i think its really about TONE for me here,and im really hoping to keep my Genz head and dial it in. I think maybe by next year,a STL-1200 should or will be introduced,hopefully with a tube-drivin compressor up front. One can only dream....(Jeff & Agedhorse,what do you think?) Keep up the super high quality,im very impressed so far guys!
 
#247
Well im REALLY bummed to say that my STL900 is up for sale....Super sad,i really wanted to like this amp and convince all my buddys it was amazing and they needed one,LOL...It just didnt have much headroom for a 900wt amp,no sustain,and flabby lows. It just got lost in the mix live,and at band practice,damn... I tried alot of tubes and EQ tweaking,but Ampeg rules the rock/metal genre for me i suppose,if its not broke,dont fix it! My band summed it up best,"Maybe its not a ROCK amp",sadly i agreed... :(
 
#248
sethro said:
Well im REALLY bummed to say that my STL900 is up for sale....Super sad,i really wanted to like this amp and convince all my buddys it was amazing and they needed one,LOL...It just didnt have much headroom for a 900wt amp,no sustain,and flabby lows. It just got lost in the mix live,and at band practice,damn... I tried alot of tubes and EQ tweaking,but Ampeg rules the rock/metal genre for me i suppose,if its not broke,dont fix it! My band summed it up best,"Maybe its not a ROCK amp",sadly i agreed... :(
Click to expand...

A couple of things to try... roll off a little of the low end, try the high gain switch and lower the volume, try some mid boost (freq. to taste).

Another thing you might consider is giving the Shuttle 9.2 a try. That amp's voicing may be better suited to your application. Your amp has a transferrable 3 year warranty so your Streamliner should be easy to sell if it turns out that it jusrt doesn't suit your personal taste.
 
#249
sethro said:
Well im REALLY bummed to say that my STL900 is up for sale....Super sad,i really wanted to like this amp and convince all my buddys it was amazing and they needed one,LOL...It just didnt have much headroom for a 900wt amp,no sustain,and flabby lows. It just got lost in the mix live,and at band practice,damn... I tried alot of tubes and EQ tweaking,but Ampeg rules the rock/metal genre for me i suppose,if its not broke,dont fix it! My band summed it up best,"Maybe its not a ROCK amp",sadly i agreed... :(
Click to expand...

Have you tried the so called "SVT settings"?
Gain and volume: 3:00, gain switch off
Bass: 9:00
Mid: 9:00 at 600 Hz
Treble: 11:00

Yesterday I tried this and the result has shocked me. I could not imagine the result simply thinking about those EQ positions. I even used a pick for the grind, and usually I do not use it a lot...just try it before selling the head. just an advice
 
#250
sratas said:
Have you tried the so called "SVT settings"?
Gain and volume: 3:00, gain switch off
Bass: 9:00
Mid: 9:00 at 600 Hz
Treble: 11:00

Yesterday I tried this and the result has shocked me. I could not imagine the result simply thinking about those EQ positions. I even used a pick for the grind, and usually I do not use it a lot...just try it before selling the head. just an advice
Click to expand...

This is all true. As well as a round, super-smooth Motown thump, there's also something of a beast lurking in the Streamliner. The EQ and gain controls interact in such a complex way, that the best settings are not always intuitive.

It's also an engineering marvel. Actual metal jacks, mounted to a thick, heavy-duty chassis, etc. That kind of build quality is getting pretty rare these days. I trust my Streamliner more than any amp I've owned since my old, pre-Fender SWR Studio 220.

Buuut...

That doesn't make it all things for all people. Even when it's raging, it does it in a uniquely velvety, Streamliner-ish way. And for people who want to tighten up the lows and low mids, AND want to add some upper midrange bite, it's possible to run out of knobs.

Some of us have gotten around this by using external EQ, and kept right on enjoying their Streamliners. But as agedhorse points out, some people might be simply be better off with a .2-series Shuttle.

Personally, I'm on the fence. My Streamliner is currently relegated to backup duty. A 12AU7 in V2 brought the low mids under control and gave me some needed flexibility with my basses, hands and cabs, but for the past month or so, I've been rocking a G-K MB800.

Interestingly, although I often find myself tweaking the G-K to sound pretty close to the Streamliner, I simply find it faster and easier to dial in a tone I like on certain gigs. Almost as importantly, the form factor fits my bags better, and I can leave the external EQ behind on gigs where it was a necessity with the Streamliner.

I have to say, though, it certainly feels good to know that the SL900 still has my back, should the flimsy plastic-sleeved input jack or the tiny cooling fans let go on the G-K. That's why the Genz is still hanging around a month after I promised my wife I would sell it...
 
#254
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Screw rolling tubes! Leave it stock baby & rock :bassist:
 
#255
agedhorse said:
A couple of things to try... roll off a little of the low end, try the high gain switch and lower the volume, try some mid boost (freq. to taste).

Another thing you might consider is giving the Shuttle 9.2 a try. That amp's voicing may be better suited to your application. Your amp has a transferrable 3 year warranty so your Streamliner should be easy to sell if it turns out that it jusrt doesn't suit your personal taste.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I did with my Streamliner 600 and it sounded beautiful, gutsy and definitely punched nice tone through the mix.
 
#257
I was on the verge of selling my Streamliner 900 to get a Shuttle 9.2, simply because the tone was always a little too cloudy (as others have said) for my taste, no matter what EQ settings I used. I liked the amp, but I never was 100% satisfied with the sound. By the way, my cabinet is a Genz-Benz Uber 410. But instead of selling my Streamliner, I decided to try new tubes in it.

I first ordered a NOS JAN Philips 5751 to put in V1, and it made a huge difference. The 5751 definitely brought more clarity to my tone, and took away a lot of that "cloudiness." I was very pleased... I then ordered two NOS RCA 7025's to put in V2 and V3. They didn't make as much difference as the 5751 in V1 did, but they still made a difference. The 7025's were icing on the cake. They just made the amp sound even more warm and to my liking. Now it just sounds like heaven, and I can't get enough of it. The amp has more clarity in the mix with my band, which it didn't have before. I'm definitely keeping my Streamliner, thanks to the new tubes.
 

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