Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling

[steve_rolfeca]

No offense to anyone, because I'd be the last guy to quell talk about my favorite cabs (Bergantino) but, we should try to stay on topic:

Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling.

Someone should start a thread "Genz Streamliner, Shuttle & Bergantino".

+1000.

There's lots of useful "cab talk" on the main Streamliner thread. Let's try to stay on topic. Personally, I'd be grateful if a moderator felt the urge to move the OT clutter to another thread.

 

[boethius]

Has anyone tried Any of the TADs?

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Has anyone tried Any of the TADs?

I like their 12AY7. Up until recently, it was the only alternative to NOS. Being German (the company, not the tubes), they're pricey on this side of the pond, though.

I haven't had a chance for a back-to-back comparison with a fresh TAD, but based on how it performs in my guitar amps, the new Electro Harmonix 12AY7 seems to be a worthy competitor. And at less than $20 shipped, it's a comparative bargain.

Given the amount of rebranding that goes on these days, they might even be the same tube...

 

[boethius]

I just rolled 3 of the TAD 7025 S Mullard Reissues in all 3 slots...just to try. Seemed to warm up the sound a bit. Nice punch in the mids off the fretless too. Seems a little sweeter.
I'll leave them for now and see how they do with some burn in.

 

[kai_ski]

I'm new to tube rolling, but I would really like to try something to tighten up the low end of my STM900. Is there a consensus on what tubes and their positions accomplishes that?

What are some good, reliable, resources for purchasing tubes online?

 

[johnk_10]

after rolling quite a few tubes in one today, for the biggest effect, i'd recommend replacing the first tube (V1) with an NOS 5751. this one tube alone removes the 'cloudiness' and somewhat 'over compressed' feel of the amp that some of you may be experiencing with these heads. it really opened it up and made it much more touch sensitve.

after that, i prefer a NOS Amperex 12AX7 in V2. it smooths out the bass, makes it more transparent and rounder (less dark). and my favorite tube in V3 is a NOS Mullard ECC83 (12AX7)

 

[woolysock]

@JohnK_10

Aha! I have a GE 5751 I can try in V1.

Currently I have this arrangement:
1) JAN Philips 12AX7WA in V1
2) JJ 803S in V2
3) JJ 83S into V3
and it sounds darn good...

If I put the GE 5751 in V1 where would you suggest I place the other tubes?
I was thinking I'd leave V2 as is and put the Phillips in V3.
Would you agree?

 

[johnk_10]

i pm'd you, but here's what i'd recommend using the tubes that you have.

V1-5751
V2-Philips
V3-JJ

 

[woolysock]

Gotcha, thx!
Will get some work done and then pop the top ;-) and report back.
Cheers!

 

[jnewmark]

Are you guys also tube rolling in the 600 Streamliner, or is it mostly for the 900 ?

 

[kai_ski]

Are you guys also tube rolling in the 600 Streamliner, or is it mostly for the 900 ?

The only difference between the two is the power section, so this discussion should apply to both the 600 and 900.

 

[smeet]

Johnk you suggested tubesandmore.com for the NOS 5751, but they are out of stock. They were just $21.95 there, is that really NOS?

Do you know anywhere else good to get them?

 

[johnk_10]

Johnk you suggested tubesandmore.com for the NOS 5751, but they are out of stock. They were just $21.95 there, is that really NOS?

Do you know anywhere else good to get them?

yes, the were NOS, but you can get NOS philips 5751's for $29.95 at tubedepot. 5751 Tube Types

 

[woolysock]

@JohnK_10

OK, swapped the GE 5751 into V1, the Phillips JAN 12AX7WA in V2 and JJ originally in V1 now in V3.

Initial thoughts: the problematic "wide" bottom end seemed to go away replaced by a tighter more focused tone. Some edge from the top end appeared to be smoothed away and the string-to-string sound in general seemed more even. The overall tone was punchy / aggressive which I suspect will be an improvement on the gig tomorrow night.

The 5751 gives a drop in volume and I wonder whether I should up the gain, volume or master to get back to live levels. I have been running gain at 10 o'clock, volume at 2 o'clock and master as needed. My hunch is to raise the gain to noon. Yes?

 

[kai_ski]

As a noob to tube rolling, i'm looking for advice. I've read all of the suggestions from johnk in this thread, as well as the other 'eq' thread, and I would really like to try the 5751 in V1 for the focus in the low end, as well as, if not more so, for the control and dynamics that he says he's getting as a result. I have also read, that rolling the EHX 12aY7 into V2 has a similar smoothing effect on the bass and treble eq ranges, but further lowers the gain, which I'm not sure I want if I lose 30% in V1.

My question is, if I roll a NOS 5751 into V1, without any changes to V2 or V3, am I going to see the same result? Are changes to V2,3 subtle enough that the stock tubes will suffice initially?

It looks like I can get a decent GE or Philips NOS 5751 for $30 to $40, if I were to spend up to $100 total, what are some tubes you would recommend for V2 and or V3?

PM me if this is getting too detailed for the public forum.

 

[johnk_10]

@JohnK_10



The 5751 gives a drop in volume and I wonder whether I should up the gain, volume or master to get back to live levels. I have been running gain at 10 o'clock, volume at 2 o'clock and master as needed. My hunch is to raise the gain to noon. Yes?

yes. that's where i ran it.

 

[johnk_10]

My question is, if I roll a NOS 5751 into V1, without any changes to V2 or V3, am I going to see the same result? Are changes to V2,3 subtle enough that the stock tubes will suffice initially?

yes, IMO, the 5751 makes the biggest improvement to removing the 'cloudiness' that some of you may feel that the head has (like i do). i just slightly raise the gain to compensate for the lower gain of it.

It looks like I can get a decent GE or Philips NOS 5751 for $30 to $40, if I were to spend up to $100 total, what are some tubes you would recommend for V2 and or V3?

you just have to make sure that V1 is a good one (as in not microphonic). RCA or Amperex 12AX7's are great for V2 and V3 and will not further lower the gain in those stages. you might be able to get some good ones for a reasonable price here:
RCA 12AX7 - long gray plates


note: i've got 100's of used and NOS tubes since i've been collecting tubes for the last 40 years so i just roll what i have on hand. i don't sell them so your best bet is finding a dealer that carries them and asking for ones that test for transconductance at new spec and are not noisey (i.e.with no microphonics and no hiss/hum)

 

[woolysock]

Addendum:
I have two JJ 12AX7s, a JJ 803S and the standard JJ 83S.
I ended up using the JJ803S in V3. It seemed a little brighter and more detailed (running 600K mids at 2 o'clock).
This amp is great fun and sounds way cool.
Cheers!

 

[esoxhntr]

The 5751 is a nice choice for sure in V1. Played with that a bit last night, with a 5814 in V2 and a Phillips 12ax7 in V3. Nice tight focused sound. The 5814 in a nice tube for V2 to further roll back and tighten the bass response. There are times when you have to crank the treble a little, but the overall tone is worth it for sure.

I've also been running Phillips 12ax7WA tubes in V1 and V3, with the 5814 in V2. Hard to decide which I prefer. The Phillips tubes have a little more brightness, but are a little less focussed in their presentation. Both tube sets are good options, I'll have to gig test them a bit to see if there is a big advantage to one or the other. I suspect it will boil down to cabinet choice and room acoustics and the choice will not be clear, but experimenting is part of the fun.

 

[Red Planet]

I think I posted this back there somewhere but what the heck. Currently I have a NOS Tesla in V1 and a NOS Mullard ECC83 in V2 and V3.

Sounds really good. The Tesla has a tiny plate structure. I do enjoy swapping tubes in the Streamliner.