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GenzBenz Streamliner Pt 8...

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I'm looking at adding a second 115 to make a stack... if I had the TC750 right now I wouldn't even think of it but I have 100% confidence the Streamliner 900 could get push the 2 8ohm 400w cabs without trouble.

Again, the power rating of a cab has nothing to do with how much power is needed to push that cab to full volume.

IMO, if you would actually try the 750, my guess is you would feel differently.

That being said, I like the tone of my Streamliner much better at this point, and am loving the amp!!
 
I'm looking at adding a second 115 to make a stack... if I had the TC750 right now I wouldn't even think of it but I have 100% confidence the Streamliner 900 could get push the 2 8ohm 400w cabs without trouble.

PABLO: Can't download at work was hoping just to click & hear!

where can I host that sort of thing?
 
If it is audio only, iComposition is free, has great sound quality, and doesn't require the listener to download anything or sign in. Highly recommended.

I used iComposition for my clips before I got my video recorder and moved to Youtube.

hmmm.... seems a lot of jumble.... I guess if anyone's interested in hearing the amp in that setting they'll just have to DL it! If the idea is critical listening should probably be using headphones or high-quality home speakers in any case.... not that we're good enough as a band to justify them!
 
hmmm.... seems a lot of jumble.... I guess if anyone's interested in hearing the amp in that setting they'll just have to DL it! If the idea is critical listening should probably be using headphones or high-quality home speakers in any case.... not that we're good enough as a band to justify them!

All you do is upload the clip.. takes about 3 minutes to sign up so you can do it. And, of course, you need to listen with headphones on a good playback system. If you do, and the recording is high quality, it is amazing how good it can sound.

Anyway, if you are looking for a simple, free hosting site for audio clips, iComposition worked very nicely for me.:)
 
The SL 900 paired with my new Art of Noise fEARful™ 1212/6 is a roaring beast. The Thunderchild cab is no slouch either. :bassist:

I love having a tube-like amp and at the same time being able to run other preamps into the effect loop for a solid state vibe. So far my Headway pre sounds great and my Empress Para EQ works well too for detailed eq jobs.
 

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The SL 900 paired with my new Art of Noise fEARful™ 1212/6 is a roaring beast. The Thunderchild cab is no slouch either. :bassist:

I love having a tube-like amp and at the same time being able to run other preamps into the effect loop for a solid state vibe. So far my Headway pre sounds great and my Empress Para EQ works well too for detailed eq jobs.

Another plus for how well the SL drives fEarfuls and nEarfuls!
Kjung speculated early on that it would.:)
 
neither a fEarful or a nEarful but my TB153, I call it my "nAwful". :D sounds great to me with my STM-900 and P5.

This cab/head/bass combo work so well for me in my Blues-rock/soul band. For a change I'm gonna pull the Chromes off the P5 and install some new Nickel 8250's just to see if I don't go running back to my flats next day after this Saturday's gig. This is the only bass I keep flats on and its' got me spoiled. Plus I'm curious to see what the tone will be thru the TB-cab/900-head. Hmm, better try it at home first.

I have such a great time when I'm giggin that rig. I hate to have to put it up after 3-4 sets. Just alota fun to play thru. :bassist:
 
Well, I would say they are both fantastic amps that use very well designed limiting/compression/tube emulation circuitry (plus what must be some clever heat management hardware with the Genz 9 series) to sound much louder and more full than their actual power modules would suggest if tested purely in a vacuum on the scope:smug:

Completely agree.

I am the owner of a STL900 and the RH750. Ultimately, I was going to sell the STL900 to fund a MB as I wanted something much clearer/transparent for my Musicman basses (I love hearing a Stingray as it should be).

Turns out, I actually like the STL900 too much, and Ive just done a deal on a new AS Jazz Bass and got a hefty discount off both the bass and a new LM3, so I am in amp heaven.

The 750, (off topic sorry) and the RH450 before it, are absolute POWERHOUSES when it comes to hammering volume. Im not saying that just because I own the 750, I mean it.

Too many people think in bubbles and sit and analyse amp specs. You know what, get gigging and forget about it. If the amp underperforms at the gig, I then understand the frustration, but the RH450/750 will always be known, to me, as massively loud.

Did anyone moan about it before the rating came out? Nope.

The STL900 is a very very loud amplifier, more than I need, but again, I bet if you measured it under a certain system, it wouldnt be 900W RMS...and thats not a poke at GB ether, because this amp SLAMS...completely.
 
I am the owner of a STL900 and the RH750.

...Too many people think in bubbles and sit and analyse amp specs. You know what, get gigging and forget about it. If the amp underperforms at the gig, I then understand the frustration, but the RH450/750 will always be known, to me, as massively loud.

...The STL900 is a very very loud amplifier, more than I need, but again, I bet if you measured it under a certain system, it wouldnt be 900W RMS...and thats not a poke at GB ether, because this amp SLAMS...completely.

+1


I sometimes wish that dB and power ratios worked on a linear basis instead of logarithmic, simply because so many people misunderstand them.

First off, unless you have some pretty impressive cabs, you can't experience the full potential impact of an amp like the SL900, because your cabs will start to compress well before the amp hits its full power rating.

Besides, even if you have the Cabs Of Doom, a difference of a few watts (or even a few hundred, in some cases), simply doesn't matter. The conventional spacing between the lines on a volume knob (or beside the faders on a mixer) is 3dB. Any time I've been on a gig and felt like my amp was underpowered, I've needed more than just one line on the fader, and if the power ratings on both Streamliners are perfectly accurate, the difference between the 600 and 900 is only roughly half a line.

Some interesting examples of relative power output, expressed as a dB difference (assuming that everyone's ratings are accurate):
Markbass LMIII vs SWR Headlite = 0.45dB louder
Genz Streamliner 600 vs Markbass LMIII = 0.79dB
Streamliner 900 vs 600 = 1.76dB*
Streamliner 900 vs Markbass LMIII = 2.5dB
TC RH450 (marketed) vs TC RH450 (actual) = 2.79dB**
Streamliner 600 vs Mesa Walkabout = 3.0dB

*Unless Genz worked more magic in the 3DPM circuit on the 900, in which case, the subjective difference between the two could feel like 3dB, 6dB, or ???
**That is, assuming you only use the TC to play continuous tones from a sine-wave generator, instead of using it for bass guitar. Like, say, an actual musician?

Secondly, the convention of naming amps according to their power output is nothing more than a marketing convenience. I expect that the only reason that Genz called our favourite amp a Streamliner 900, is because SL 927 (or SL 853, for that matter) wouldn't have much of a ring to it. Is anybody really clueless enough to believe that a "50-watt" Marshall guitar amp actually puts out 50 clean watts, or that the Streamliner 600 and 900 BOTH just happen to max out at perfect round numbers? Sadly, the answer seems to be "yes".

More importantly, when it comes to the highly subjective thing we call "loudness", voicing, breakup at the limit, and other factors matter far more than wattage. An amp with a wide, relatively flat voicing like an Eden, won't sound as loud as one with a more tailored, peaky response like a G-K. An SVT will happily go much louder than a conventional solid state head of the same advertised wattage, simply because the SVT continues to sound good when it's deep into the breakup zone. And an amp that's hampered by a poorly-designed compressor like the Eden WTX260, won't sound nearly as dynamic as its power rating suggests.

I actually feel for TC Electronic. They built an affordable, lightweight SVT-killer, and the clever power management makes it sound far louder than its continuous RMS power. Knowing that their target market is working musicians and hobbyists rather than audio engineers, they must have lost a lot of sleep figuring out how to market it. How do you explain a solid-state amp that slams as though it's an all-tube lead-sled, in a world where customers are so uninformed that they give SWR heck for rating the Headlite at "only" 400 watts, instead of going for the "full" 500?

By the way, I chose the manufacturers in my dB comparison specifically because NONE of them, including Genz, rate their amps according to hi-fi convention. Check the websites for yourself: they all use rounded off power "ratings", with no qualifiers for % distortion or frequency bandwidth. No-one beefs about their ratings, for the simple reason that their amps sound great, and are #$&@@!!! loud for their size. Just like the TC.

IMO, some of the guys over on the TC RH thread have been acting like schoolgirls. I really don't care how accurate the power rating on my Streamliner 900 is. It's louder than any sensible person needs, and I bet an RH750 is, too.

The way I see it, if you like the features and processing on the TC and are comfortable with their customer service record, then buy it. If you prefer the sound of the Genz and want to experience their stellar customer service, then buy the Streamliner. But whichever amp you choose, use your ears as your main evaluation tool, not a poorly-understood spec sheet.
 
I agree completely Steve. Problem is, many of us have little opportunity to hear with our ears before we buy. So we are stuck with having to buy off of spec sheets, and hence play in the "try, keep, or flip" game.
 
Yes, well put. A good example for me to this point. I had a Tfunk 550 - plenty loud but tended to compress a bit at higher volumes. Sold the funk and moved on to LMIII, sounded great at those same volumes without compression, but tone still left me with some desire for something. Got the SL600, sounds great at any volume I have used it. I will never have a venue where I could redline this amp, and if I did I would be in PA anyway and wouldn't have to. For years I gigged with a "350" watt head any never had volume issues. It is all so very subjective, but as you say the all mighty ear in the end will let you know what you need, and that is usually not related to power potential.


+1


I sometimes wish that dB and power ratios worked on a linear basis instead of logarithmic, simply because so many people misunderstand them.

First off, unless you have some pretty impressive cabs, you can't experience the full potential impact of an amp like the SL900, because your cabs will start to compress well before the amp hits its full power rating.

Besides, even if you have the Cabs Of Doom, a difference of a few watts (or even a few hundred, in some cases), simply doesn't matter. The conventional spacing between the lines on a volume knob (or beside the faders on a mixer) is 3dB. Any time I've been on a gig and felt like my amp was underpowered, I've needed more than just one line on the fader, and if the power ratings on both Streamliners are perfectly accurate, the difference between the 600 and 900 is only roughly half a line.

Some interesting examples of relative power output, expressed as a dB difference (assuming that everyone's ratings are accurate):
Markbass LMIII vs SWR Headlite = 0.45dB louder
Genz Streamliner 600 vs Markbass LMIII = 0.79dB
Streamliner 900 vs 600 = 1.76dB*
Streamliner 900 vs Markbass LMIII = 2.5dB
TC RH450 (marketed) vs TC RH450 (actual) = 2.79dB**
Streamliner 600 vs Mesa Walkabout = 3.0dB

*Unless Genz worked more magic in the 3DPM circuit on the 900, in which case, the subjective difference between the two could feel like 3dB, 6dB, or ???
**That is, assuming you only use the TC to play continuous tones from a sine-wave generator, instead of using it for bass guitar. Like, say, an actual musician?

Secondly, the convention of naming amps according to their power output is nothing more than a marketing convenience. I expect that the only reason that Genz called our favourite amp a Streamliner 900, is because SL 927 (or SL 853, for that matter) wouldn't have much of a ring to it. Is anybody really clueless enough to believe that a "50-watt" Marshall guitar amp actually puts out 50 clean watts, or that the Streamliner 600 and 900 BOTH just happen to max out at perfect round numbers? Sadly, the answer seems to be "yes".

More importantly, when it comes to the highly subjective thing we call "loudness", voicing, breakup at the limit, and other factors matter far more than wattage. An amp with a wide, relatively flat voicing like an Eden, won't sound as loud as one with a more tailored, peaky response like a G-K. An SVT will happily go much louder than a conventional solid state head of the same advertised wattage, simply because the SVT continues to sound good when it's deep into the breakup zone. And an amp that's hampered by a poorly-designed compressor like the Eden WTX260, won't sound nearly as dynamic as its power rating suggests.

I actually feel for TC Electronic. They built an affordable, lightweight SVT-killer, and the clever power management makes it sound far louder than its continuous RMS power. Knowing that their target market is working musicians and hobbyists rather than audio engineers, they must have lost a lot of sleep figuring out how to market it. How do you explain a solid-state amp that slams as though it's an all-tube lead-sled, in a world where customers are so uninformed that they give SWR heck for rating the Headlite at "only" 400 watts, instead of going for the "full" 500?

By the way, I chose the manufacturers in my dB comparison specifically because NONE of them, including Genz, rate their amps according to hi-fi convention. Check the websites for yourself: they all use rounded off power "ratings", with no qualifiers for % distortion or frequency bandwidth. No-one beefs about their ratings, for the simple reason that their amps sound great, and are #$&@@!!! loud for their size. Just like the TC.

IMO, some of the guys over on the TC RH thread have been acting like schoolgirls. I really don't care how accurate the power rating on my Streamliner 900 is. It's louder than any sensible person needs, and I bet an RH750 is, too.

The way I see it, if you like the features and processing on the TC and are comfortable with their customer service record, then buy it. If you prefer the sound of the Genz and want to experience their stellar customer service, then buy the Streamliner. But whichever amp you choose, use your ears as your main evaluation tool, not a poorly-understood spec sheet.
 
This is a question for guys like Kirk and Red Planet who have played through all tube amps over the years. Has the streamliner made schlepping a heavy all tube rig to your local gigs a waste of time?
Or is there still a place for SVT or Mesa 400 or whatever in your arsenal? I got back into playing bass after a 40+ year layoff and have not owned an all tube head since the early 70's. Lovin the streamliner but still curious bout grabbin reasonably priced Mesa 400's in my area. Hope this OK question for the thread.

I have been using a '73 SVT and an 810. Last Wednesday I received a STM 900. IMO they sound similar. One thing that I did notice is the STM didn't seem to allow the notes to ring out as much as the SVT, but to me, at least at this point, it's close enough. Close enough that I may sell the SVT.
 
I agree with the guys here who have stayed with the Streamliner vs bailing on it... I can't get rid of it... theres nothing like it. No it can't do it all but I know if I sell it, the next amp can't sound like a Streamliner either. I have more than 1 bass, I'm going with more than 1 amp too.

I have to either buy a lightweight poweramp for my Eden Nav or buy a rackmounted class D amp for the 2nd. Still in between what to do. I'll probably compare DI Eden vs Genz... if the Genz is that much quieter than the Eden I'll most likely grab a Shuttle.
 
I can't get rid of it... theres nothing like it.

Yep. 900/Uber Quad, absolutely zero complaints here

I've been using fairly conservative settings on the amp, but started to branch out. As we've been experiencing, extreme cuts/boosts add incredible character rather than harshness, something I have not found with the new generation of feather weight amps.
 
Yep. 900/Uber Quad, absolutely zero complaints here

I've been using fairly conservative settings on the amp, but started to branch out. As we've been experiencing, extreme cuts/boosts add incredible character rather than harshness, something I have not found with the new generation of feather weight amps.

Then you combine it with hi-fi cabs like the GK Neos or really warm cabs like Epifani NYC & you change things completely too.
 
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