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Genzler 4 on the Floor

#61
- Are the HPF and LPF attractive to harder distortion users?
Yes

- Is the clean blend attractive to harder distortion users?
Yes
If you have an overdrive before the distortion, then clean will blend the overdrive into the distortion, and having a little amp-like dirt with some high-gain-like dirt can be awesome.

- How much of the dynamic feel are players willing to sacrifice for more distortion?
If there are 4 options, I'd like...
1. Muff
2. DS-1
3. Rat (probably the easiest to give a dynamic feel, but a dynamic feel is what the 4OTF is for, right?)
4. HM-2? Elements? Blue Box?

I think dynamic feel is more of an amp-like characteristic, but there are pedals like the Akai Shred-O-Matic and the DS1x that work with player dynamics, but I think the Boss uses DSP to achieve that (not sure what the Akai used, but I think it was the "passion" setting that did something to the dynamics; then again it was a "tube" pedal, but the pedal was lit by an LED under the 12ax7).

- Is the heavier compression that naturally comes with more distorted tones desirable?
Yes
I love a distortion/fuzz that has sustain. You don't have to constantly articulate and you have a nice long release. I think of it as the tuba effect. Sometimes a sustained low sound under a higher pitched instrument playing more notes is cool. High gain can do that well, and sometimes without sounding harsh, which is why those filter would come in handy. It can be a little synthy.

- Where do you guys feel that overdrive becomes distortion? gear 3? gear 4? (different players are sure to have different answers for this as we saw how subjective it was in our test player panel)
Not Sure
I'll answer again in a few days when my 4OTF arrives.
In general, I think the pedal that best exemplifies the bridge between overdrive and distortion is the Rat. For amp sounds..., I'll find out.

- Are vintage or modern distortions more interesting?
Most modern distortions are improvements on vintage distortions or amps-in-a-box. It seems that 4OTF falls into the amps-in-a-box category. What exactly is a 'modern' distortion? Elements? Revv? Certainly not a Fuzz Factory.
I have an Iron-Ether Subterranea. It bills itself as an analog synth pedal; it adds different wave forms to your signal. Even though it's a fuzzy/dirt box of some sort, it's really its own beast and might be too outside. I personally love it, but I think it would pair better with a filter-type pedal than a traditional high-gain.
 
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#62
For clean blend I prefer a crossover blend with low/high separation so that the low frequencies are clean and not fighting or stepping on the highs of the distortion side. So basically a volume level for each( or a balance) and an adjustable frequency knob. The x-over frequency range doesn't need to be too broad, say 60 to 2k?

Add a rotary selection of the most famous distortion/overdrive - chips/circuits. An active parametric mid and treble control or LPF on the distortion channel with a pre/post switch.

Also an effects loop for adding other pedals to the high crossover section, so the pedal can be utilized just for it's x-over capabilities. A footswitch to turn the effects loop on/off.

This last part could be useful but isn't necessary.
(Have a separate distortion option to apply for the low clean x-over section and then a traditional blend knob on the clean channel.
This way you can have the mids/highs fully distorted, and a clean signal adjusted to the proper x-over frequency for maintaining the bass fundamentals without interfering with the distorted mids/highs. Then a way to blend in distortion on the clean channel to complete the circle of distortion. Or just keep the clean channel untouched and crossed over.
Finally, an expression pedal input to adjust the crossover frequency on the fly live.)

Those would be my dream features.
 
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#63
I'm VERY intrigued with this pedal. So many overdrive pedals synchronously do two things that I hate: Turn the lows/low-mids into farty mush and clip the highs so much it sounds like a blanket got thrown over the speakers. Most blend and tone tones stuck on overdrives are just lacking, IME. The only two companies I've found that truly do a good job with this are Tech21 and Darkglass, but both of those are fairly colored options—the Tech21 stuff explicitly so. I've always searched for something that can just take my uncolored bass signal and add some grit and harmonic complexity. I don't want to "sound like Geddy" per se, but I've always wanted to strive for what he does regarding overdrive.

The only pedal I've found that can come close to doing that on its own is the Barbershop on lower gain settings, but even that is still not quite there. I've taken to using a Wounded Paw Blender with overdrive and distortion pedals in the chain and that has seemed to be a solution I like—and it's helped take a lot of the guesswork out of trying to figure out unity on dirt pedals, which can sometimes be a crapshoot on a gig.

But the 4 On the Floor with the filters really seems to do what so many overdrives fail at doing: Maintaining the preciseness of the low-end and the intelligibility of the highs, all the while adding that warm harmonic complexity to the mids. The demo clip, especially with the Jazz Bass and the Jackson, really nail it.
 
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#64
danyosound said:
I think dynamic feel is more of an amp-like characteristic, but there are pedals like the Akai Shred-O-Matic and the DS1x that work with player dynamics, but I think the Boss uses DSP to achieve that (not sure what the Akai used, but I think it was the "passion" setting that did something to the dynamics; then again it was a "tube" pedal, but the pedal was lit by an LED under the 12ax7).
Click to expand...

I know this is going off topic, but just to correct a couple of common misconceptions about pedals that features a tube.

The fact that there is an additional light source lighting up the tube(s) in a pedal says nothing about weather or not that tube contributes to the tone of that pedal or to what degree it does so.

Lots of pedals that utilizes tubes, even a lot of those who run them at the proper high 200V to 300V plate voltage that the tubes are designed to work optimally with, will have an additional light source lighting up the tubes in them, simply for that reason that a preamp tube usually under normal circumstances doesn't light all that much up them self (I assume partially because people who know nothing about tubes expect them the tubes to light up like a light bulb in order to work).

Also even if a pedal utilizes starved tube plate voltage the tubes in them will have an influence on the tone, in fact a starved tube plate design will result in more coloration from the tube (that is of course given that it actually serves that function in the given circuit), not less, as it will reach the break up point much more easily than a tube run at the high voltage they are originally designed to work optimally under.

Finally the amount of voltage a a pedal need to run says little about what kind of voltage it might be bumped up to internally, even pedals that only require 9V could easily bump up the power for the tube plate to proper 250V, if just sufficient power, that is Ampere, is supplied.
 
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#66
Lowendtech said:
Ooh. Neat.
https://www.genzleramplification.co...on-pedal/?mc_cid=213fed3646&mc_eid=5afd05723c
Click to expand...

I wish I knew this was coming out.

I sent my 4 On the Floor back. I really felt like it needed an EQ that I wasn't quite achieving with my Mesa head so that I could have one cleanish sound and one dirtyish sound. I now have a Darkglass coming in. That re/Q might have done the trick.

I need a dirty sound that can do a spikey presence kick, and having an extra option would be awesome too. Chasing sounds is expensive, but I'm going to need to sound awesome for Cruel World, so I'll keep chasing.

Addendum:
Maybe that's not what I'm looking for either. There's no gain function, though I'm sure boosting will give some of that. It looks more like a sophisticated EQ for the beginning of the chain after a compressor perhaps. In combination with a 4 On the Floor would be cool, but those pedals are taking a lot of real estate now. What to do...
 
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#68
danyosound said:
I wish I knew this was coming out.

I sent my 4 On the Floor back. I really felt like it needed an EQ that I wasn't quite achieving with my Mesa head so that I could have one cleanish sound and one dirtyish sound. I now have a Darkglass coming in. That re/Q might have done the trick.

I need a dirty sound that can do a spikey presence kick, and having an extra option would be awesome too. Chasing sounds is expensive, but I'm going to need to sound awesome for Cruel World, so I'll keep chasing.

Addendum:
Maybe that's not what I'm looking for either. There's no gain function, though I'm sure boosting will give some of that. It looks more like a sophisticated EQ for the beginning of the chain after a compressor perhaps. In combination with a 4 On the Floor would be cool, but those pedals are taking a lot of real estate now. What to do...
Click to expand...

I still have my 4OTF, but I agree that it needs an EQ pedal with it. I already have a Broughton Messenger, so I'm all set there.
 
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#70
I have a jazz bass with really dead chromes on it. This pedal let's me brighten it up with saturation instead of EQ which really works in a band situation. I like 3rd gear because it compresses the over drive a bit so when I dig in the tone changes
But the overdrive doesn't get crazy loud compared to the clean signal.
 
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#71
Played my first gig with the 4OTF last night. It's a fine sounding pedal but two little things bug me.

1. the size, it's seems large for what it is...

2. the dual lights, I'm sure I'll get used to it but in a flash looking down at the pedal it always looks on. Because it's newish to me and during a show with all the typical distractions, I forgot which color LED meant on. With a number of pedals shifting on my board I'm used to just seeing a light when that pedal is on and no light when off.

Since the 4OTF excels at low gain settings I found myself on occasion clicking it on and off to check what color LED stands for engaged.

The LPF and HPF can be worked to EQ the pedal but in my opinion I think I would have preferred a conventional EQ and perhaps an LPF and HPF switch.

Still, it's a great pedal and won't be bumped off my board anytime soon. :)
 
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#72
MuthaFunk said:
Played my first gig with the 4OTF last night. It's a fine sounding pedal but two little things bug me.

1. the size, it's seems large for what it is...

2. the dual lights, I'm sure I'll get used to it but in a flash looking down at the pedal it always looks on. Because it's newish to me and during a show with all the typical distractions, I forgot which color LED meant on. With a number of pedals shifting on my board I'm used to just seeing a light when that pedal is on and no light when off.

Since the 4OTF excels at low gain settings I found myself on occasion clicking it on and off to check what color LED stands for engaged.

The LPF and HPF can be worked to EQ the pedal but in my opinion I think I would have preferred a conventional EQ and perhaps an LPF and HPF switch.

Still, it's a great pedal and won't be bumped off my board anytime soon. :)
Click to expand...

I felt the same way. It did some things I really liked in every gear, but I still wanted an EQ.
 
#77
RE Q dual EQ pedal

I don't know. At first I was glad that there will be easy access LPF HPF pedal out there. But on the other hand this pedal is big footprint with fixed EQ. If it has parametric EQ, Headphone out, IR cab sim or just smaller footprint it would be fine.
 
#78
MuthaFunk said:
LOL! Indeed they have! Have you noticed the size of these pedals? Not exactly "micro". :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have to trust that all that space is required for the good stuff inside. The pair might be nice on a simple board, maybe adding just compression and a DI. Another option tempting me is a dedicated micro EQ/boost pedal placed in front of the 4OTF, since plenty of OD tone sculpting can be done with a simple EQ.
 
#79
I like the dedicated nature of the Re/Q. It seems too many pedals continue to be too many things. On any given day , a small pedal board - 3-5 pedals, could give you 2-3 DI's, several aux and headphone in/outs among other I/O. This doesn't even take into account your amps options.

So, for me, the thoughtful set up of this EQ with HPF/LPF works for its simplicity.
 
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#80
Szyszaczek said:
RE Q dual EQ pedal

I don't know. At first I was glad that there will be easy access LPF HPF pedal out there. But on the other hand this pedal is big footprint with fixed EQ. If it has parametric EQ, Headphone out, IR cab sim or just smaller footprint it would be fine.
Click to expand...

It’s worth noting the HPF/LPF on this pedal is only on the overdrive distortion clipping circuit. It’s meant to be a tone shaper. As soon as you blend in any amount of clean it’s full range.

So for example if you set the HPF fairly high and LPF fairly low you can boost the overdrive volume relative to the clean and get a very mid heavy dirt sound. Pull the HPF down in frequency and it fills out.

The limitations of this arrangement is when you want to cut mids or anything while keeping some clean signal there.
 
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