Genzler Amplification Club

[SadowskySteve]

You got to realize that before this my rig was an Ampeg Heritage 410 and and Ampeg SVT-3 pro head. Which in its own right was an amazing rig but this Genzler setup puts out more clarity and just as much or punch as that Ampeg stack did. I sure love that these cabs weigh 38 pounds a piece verses close to 100 for my Ampeg lol.

This was very similar to my last rig, Ampeg SVT-3pro and Dave Eden 410XLT. The cab alone checked out at just over 100lbs. My MG800 and BA12-3, same as you is putting out way more clarity, never getting buried in the stage mix and is just as punchy.

 

[SadowskySteve]

I’ll speak for both the Genzler 12-3 arrays (purchased 3 of them) and now my new favorites the 210-3 arrays (purchased 2 of them). They both are absolutley amazing but for me the 210’s are a better option in that just 1 of them has given me the total volume and tone I need basically for any gig I would need. With both it’s insane what either combination. Bottom line is these cabinets will produce anything you out through them with the highest quality tone possible. They never cease to amaze me and everyone that hears them says the same thing.

Did you try a 12-3 mixed with a 210-3? I played the 210-3 alone in the shop and being a former 410 guy thought it would be for me but I seem to like the 12-3 a bit more (was using a few basses in the store). I only have enough GAS money for one more cab at this time and am split on adding the 210-3 or doubling up on the 12-3.

 

[Bassworship1]

Did you try a 12-3 mixed with a 210-3? I played the 210-3 alone in the shop and being a former 410 guy thought it would be for me but I seem to like the 12-3 a bit more (was using a few basses in the store). I only have enough GAS money for one more cab at this time and am split on adding the 210-3 or doubling up on the 12-3.

I decided to sale my 12-3 arrays only because the 210-3's gave me the ability to get a little more volume and allowing me to take just 1 to 99% of my gigs. The 12-3's are amazing but I didn't like just 1 as good as I do just 1 of the 210 arrays. The 210's are only 2 pounds more and 100 watts more at 8 ohm. You can;t go wrong with either because they both change the game.

 

[SadowskySteve]

Hey Steve-
Welcome back too! So, I just started playing in a Tom Petty tribute band (Pettyhearts.com) and in fairly nice sized venues (1000-3000 people), often on good sized outdoor stages. His bass tone isn't overly demanding. There's always a house PA taking my line out, or a direct box, and all players have monitors. I'm a finger player 98% of the time and very much influenced (tonally) by Sir Paul. I do play a lot of other stuff (ranging from ABBA to Zebra, but mostly rock in any case) as well. 90's alternative too, but not a slapper. I have a nice Sadowsky NYC Satin Series axe with nice range of P/J tone capabilities.

I have a Fender 2x15 vintage cab (70's anyway) which sounds very nice, but too big most of the time. I also have a Line 6 Lowdown LD-175 (think that's got a 15 in it). It also sounds quite good and is very flexible in tone - I worry it's underpowered for this next role? I was thinking that an "'in-between" for the new gig would be a 410 type of device. Played an Ampeg SVT 410HLF (this has the extended low response). Sounded pretty darn good to me. Heavy as hell though (not surprised). Thought I should consider pairing my Shuttle 9.0 with a GB cabinet, but they're outta business and I'm leery of buying deadlined products for possible support issues. There are a number of cabinets in that portfolio that I would have liked to consider. So, then I thought maybe the Genzler 2x12 Magellan product. Is my thinking outdated? Geddy plays direct to the PA for God's sake! Are there really 2x10" products that create a lovely deep tone for those instances when I have to rely on the amp alone (rehearsals)?

Maybe just consider direct with a SansAmp pedal for big gigs, and the Lowdown for rehearsals??

Lastly, I sometimes use a Big Muff Pi distortion for other tunes. Not much else in other effects.

Any input is appreciated from you or others in this esteemed audience!

Thank You-

Chris

Thanks Chris; I used to play some bigger churches (taking a break for now) in the 1000-2000 range. I hated playing direct (Boss GT-6B) or Amp in the back behind the stage and relying on stage or IE monitors alone.

Way back in this thread is a combo using a Genzler 2X12 with a BA 12-3 on top. Sounded like a winner combo.

I've tried using my 410 with MG800. The horn in my Eden cab was very sweet before but I found it harsh after using the BA 12-3. The dispersion, clarity and sound is amazing from any position including slightly behind my rig. You can stand side by side, be on the other side of the stage, way in front, you get the same sound. I've tested both indoors and out, large (500 peeps) and small stages. I've got my 410 up for sale and am not going back.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

DS-
Cool. I definitely favor the larger speakers (12" & 15") but realize there has probably been a lot of advances over the years. Have you had any feedback on the dual 12" product by chance or maybe listened to it yourself?

C

@ChrisWright Welcome back to the forum world. Yes a lot has changed over the years in bass gear but your Shuttle is still a great amp. In cabinet design many designers arw pushing the envelope on the best performance in the smallest most compact package possible. Unlike lightweight amp designs there are just plain physics principals you can't get past in cabinet design. The trick is the balance of those principals.
With the Bass Array design we've chosen 2 different design platforms that when combined into this small package multiplies the performance of both. In the BA12-3 the high powered, very efficient 12" woofer is in a ported chamber providing the LF support you could omly consider from a 15" a decade ago. For the BA design all if the mids and HF are produced by the line array of the 3" drivers. Not only are the small drivers a better component to reproduce these frequencies, using them in a line array provides much better horizontal dispersion and forward projection. That is how a single cab performs. Now when you couple 2 or more this dispersion and projection multiplies much more than the usual coupling of standard cab. That is why many players here comment that they have moved from much larger rigs to a couple of smaller BA cabs with much better performance and flexibility.
It is a different world in bass gear than it was even a decade ago.
I hope you get the opportunity to check out a lot of the new gear available and if I can answer any specific questions about where to find GENZLER products, please send me a PM.

 

[ChrisWright]

Thanks Chris; I used to play some bigger churches (taking a break for now) in the 1000-2000 range. I hated playing direct (Boss GT-6B) or Amp in the back behind the stage and relying on stage or IE monitors alone.

Way back in this thread is a combo using a Genzler 2X12 with a BA 12-3 on top. Sounded like a winner combo.

I've tried using my 410 with MG800. The horn in my Eden cab was very sweet before but I found it harsh after using the BA 12-3. The dispersion, clarity and sound is amazing from any position including slightly behind my rig. You can stand side by side, be on the other side of the stage, way in front, you get the same sound. I've tested both indoors and out, large (500 peeps) and small stages. I've got my 410 up for sale and am not going back.

StingRay-
Makes sense to me too. I like an amp on the stage and to not rely on the monitors. Also read Campbell post about the 210 somewhat louder (when needed) at 8 ohms. I think a combo (12 + 10) may be the answer for me. I do not see a showroom with them on hand in my area and won't buy sight unseen though. I'll figure it out! Thanks pal.

C

 

[ChrisWright]

@ChrisWright Welcome back to the forum world. Yes a lot has changed over the years in bass gear but your Shuttle is still a great amp. In cabinet design many designers arw pushing the envelope on the best performance in the smallest most compact package possible. Unlike lightweight amp designs there are just plain physics principals you can't get past in cabinet design. The trick is the balance of those principals.
With the Bass Array design we've chosen 2 different design platforms that when combined into this small package multiplies the performance of both. In the BA12-3 the high powered, very efficient 12" woofer is in a ported chamber providing the LF support you could omly consider from a 15" a decade ago. For the BA design all if the mids and HF are produced by the line array of the 3" drivers. Not only are the small drivers a better component to reproduce these frequencies, using them in a line array provides much better horizontal dispersion and forward projection. That is how a single cab performs. Now when you couple 2 or more this dispersion and projection multiplies much more than the usual coupling of standard cab. That is why many players here comment that they have moved from much larger rigs to a couple of smaller BA cabs with much better performance and flexibility.
It is a different world in bass gear than it was even a decade ago.
I hope you get the opportunity to check out a lot of the new gear available and if I can answer any specific questions about where to find GENZLER products, please send me a PM.

Jeff-
Nice to meet you and thanks very much for the talking points. The notion of a high performance cab in such a compact package is music to my ears! I appreciate the response on the 9.0 pairing too. If I interpret correctly, the head is a good fit with either the 12-3, or the 210, or both (?). I have driven some big cabinets with it (my 2x15; 810s, etc.) and the performance is really terrific. On occasion I will play in places where a back line is in place. Plus, I don't have so many hours on it that I would want to walk away at this time. Of course the thing only weighs 6 grams too .... (!) For our Petty Tribute band (venue details herein), would you start with a 12 and add the 10 in time, or vice versa? Lastly, would the 2x12, albeit somewhat larger be a one-step answer? I was able to locate a prospective Genzler dealer in South FL (Wolfe Guitars, Jupiter) although he tells me they will only carry the acoustic line. I'll reach out PM to you for sourcing (thanks). Thanks for your help here and your contributions to our community at large.

Chris

 

[Djadja]

Jeff-
Nice to meet you and thanks very much for the talking points. The notion of a high performance cab in such a compact package is music to my ears! I appreciate the response on the 9.0 pairing too. If I interpret correctly, the head is a good fit with either the 12-3, or the 210, or both (?).

First a response, Chris. I had a Shuttle 9.0 that I played with my single BA12-3 for a while and it was great. The BA12-3 was a huge improvement over my previous cab, an Acme B2 and I would have been happy with that rig forever. I loved that head and expected only a slight upgrade if any when I went to the Genzler 800. I was surprised that the Genzler gave me everything I liked about the shuttle plus more heft in every register, a quicker response feel, and it seems to go louder even though it is rated at a slightly lower wattage. All that is to warn you that this Genzler gear is addicting and the BA cabs are simply the gateway. (What a gateway!?!?) I don’t need an additional cab... the single cab does everything I need and it is hard to imagine anything better. Then I read the comments about the synergy that happens with more than one and I start to drool and shake...

I run a small acoustic concert series, do sound for it, and occasionally get to sit in with the touring artists. Last night we had a show with Invalid Link Removed (she is a wonderful performer) and got to sit in with her, playing my fretless Bee through the Magellan 800 & my BA12-3 up on an amp stand. She also brought a killer pedal steel player named Tim Fleming. I don’t know that slice of the music world but evidently he is well known in those circles and plays for lots of people in the studio and as a side player. Earlier in his career he had been a bass player. Sofia travels with her own sound person so I got to sit back and watch during the show except on the 3 songs I joined in. Afterwards both Tim and the sound guy asked me about the Genzler rig. Their comments reflected what we all know. “It sounded so clear”. “I could hear everything perfectly even off to the side.” “One of the best bass sounds I’ve heard in a long time.”

 

[ChrisWright]

First a response, Chris. I had a Shuttle 9.0 that I played with my single BA12-3 for a while and it was great. The BA12-3 was a huge improvement over my previous cab, an Acme B2 and I would have been happy with that rig forever. I loved that head and expected only a slight upgrade if any when I went to the Genzler 800. I was surprised that the Genzler gave me everything I liked about the shuttle plus more heft in every register, a quicker response feel, and it seems to go louder even though it is rated at a slightly lower wattage. All that is to warn you that this Genzler gear is addicting and the BA cabs are simply the gateway. (What a gateway!?!?) I don’t need an additional cab... the single cab does everything I need and it is hard to imagine anything better. Then I read the comments about the synergy that happens with more than one and I start to drool and shake...

I run a small acoustic concert series, do sound for it, and occasionally get to sit in with the touring artists. Last night we had a show with Invalid Link Removed (she is a wonderful performer) and got to sit in with her, playing my fretless Bee through the Magellan 800 & my BA12-3 up on an amp stand. She also brought a killer pedal steel player named Tim Fleming. I don’t know that slice of the music world but evidently he is well known in those circles and plays for lots of people in the studio and as a side player. Earlier in his career he had been a bass player. Sofia travels with her own sound person so I got to sit back and watch during the show except on the 3 songs I joined in. Afterwards both Tim and the sound guy asked me about the Genzler rig. Their comments reflected what we all know. “It sounded so clear”. “I could hear everything perfectly even off to the side.” “One of the best bass sounds I’ve heard in a long time.”

Thanks Revroy-
Great input and appreciated. I am quite excited at the prospect of this.
C

 

[SadowskySteve]

StingRay-
Makes sense to me too. I like an amp on the stage and to not rely on the monitors. Also read Campbell post about the 210 somewhat louder (when needed) at 8 ohms. I think a combo (12 + 10) may be the answer for me. I do not see a showroom with them on hand in my area and won't buy sight unseen though. I'll figure it out! Thanks pal.

C

HI Chris; The 210 + the 12-3 is most likely thew way I'm going but way back I asked Jeff G. specifically about mixing the cabs. He preferred keeping like with like. I'm slowly pulling some gig money aside to pull the trigger. Let me know if you go with the mix as I'm interested in how it responds on stage.

 

[ChrisWright]

HI Chris; The 210 + the 12-3 is most likely thew way I'm going but way back I asked Jeff G. specifically about mixing the cabs. He preferred keeping like with like. I'm slowly pulling some gig money aside to pull the trigger. Let me know if you go with the mix as I'm interested in how it responds on stage.

Thanks Sting-
Right from the horse's mouth is typically a good thing, especially with OUR horse! There are a number of strong endorsements for two 12-3s here and elsewhere. I am still curious about the Magellan 212, but am working my way past "more is more" mindset (although any Magellan 212 feedback from this community is appreciated). Jeff's response to me didn't necessarily suggest the 212 solution either - I kinda think the 12-3 is gonna be the way I go, possibly adding either the 210 or another 12-3 in time if needed.


Thanks!

 

[davidl13]

Well if you go according to speaker surface area... 2 - 10 arrays give you a combined 20" and 2 -12 arrays gives you 24"... (Plus the 3" speakers, but they are the same for each I believe) A 20% increase...

There are other factors.. but that is one way to look at it...

410 is 40", single 15" is far less...

I am not sure how this effects overall capability, but speaker surface area must play a part...

 

[John D Harris]

Thanks Sting-
Right from the horse's mouth is typically a good thing, especially with OUR horse! There are a number of strong endorsements for two 12-3s here and elsewhere. I am still curious about the Magellan 212, but am working my way past "more is more" mindset (although any Magellan 212 feedback from this community is appreciated). Jeff's response to me didn't necessarily suggest the 212 solution either - I kinda think the 12-3 is gonna be the way I go, possibly adding either the 210 or another 12-3 in time if needed.


Thanks!

You can do a search on this thread for 'mg212'.
svtb15 owns one & bebass has gigged with one.

 

[Loring]

Well if you go according to speaker surface area... 2 - 10 arrays give you a combined 20" and 2 -12 arrays gives you 24"... (Plus the 3" speakers, but they are the same for each I believe) A 20% increase...

There are other factors.. but that is one way to look at it...

410 is 40", single 15" is far less...

I am not sure how this effects overall capability, but speaker surface area must play a part...

Area is pi x r squared so the difference is more than that...

The amount if air a speaker moves also depends on its excursion - the 12's likely have more excursion also. Just in area the 10's would be 98.7 sq inches and the 12's would be 118.4 sq inches. (Doesn't really work linearly either as some of the "area" doesn't move per se - it attaches to the edge...

Best bet is listen to the tonal qualities of each and scale as necessary for volume.

1 12-3 is plenty loud for practise and probably small gigs.

 

[davidl13]

Area is pi x r squared so the difference is more than that...

The amount if air a speaker moves also depends on its excursion - the 12's likely have more excursion also. Just in area the 10's would be 98.7 sq inches and the 12's would be 118.4 sq inches. (Doesn't really work linearly either as some of the "area" doesn't move per se - it attaches to the edge...

Best bet is listen to the tonal qualities of each and scale as necessary for volume.

1 12-3 is plenty loud for practise and probably small gigs.

I like the way you think...

 

[Turn Em Loose]

Thanks Sting-
Right from the horse's mouth is typically a good thing, especially with OUR horse! There are a number of strong endorsements for two 12-3s here and elsewhere. I am still curious about the Magellan 212, but am working my way past "more is more" mindset (although any Magellan 212 feedback from this community is appreciated). Jeff's response to me didn't necessarily suggest the 212 solution either - I kinda think the 12-3 is gonna be the way I go, possibly adding either the 210 or another 12-3 in time if needed.


Thanks!

Don't forget about the 10-2!

 

[Bassworship1]

This brings me joy....

 

[ChrisWright]

That brought ME joy! Wow.

C

 

[svtb15]

From my local gig last week. Looks pretty cool. MG212

 

[Jeff Genzler]

From my local gig last week. Looks pretty cool. MG212
View attachment 2781396

Your cabinet is naked!!