Genzler Amplification Club

[Holdsg]

I can only comment on my experience with UB, Magellan 800 with a single 12-3. I have used that exact rig on about 10 UB gigs, Americana and Bluegrass. I do use a LR Baggs Venue preamp. Fills any room I play in with great tone. Never lacked for punch. And this was sometimes playing in support of 8 others on stage. I’ve never taken that rig on public transit. So can talk about that aspect, other than you already know that pain of schlepping the UB around would be more pain than the rig.

 

[Nightman]

I only have the 800 amp but with my 12-3, the foot print is small. I don’t travel without a cart to carry the load, so most gear I move isn’t an issue. I wouldn’t think there was that much footprint differences between the 350 and its cab, and the 800 with a 12-3, but if I had to take public trans I would opt for a combo over an amp + cabinet.

 

[RNG1]

I have a 350 and use a single 12-3 for small things and rehearsals and use another 12-3 (slant) for most gigs. It’s a rediculously great setup. The cabinets are not very heavy and easy to carry with one hand. In theory the 350/800 could be in one of their very attractive carry bags, bass on your back and carry s single cabinet but that would depend on how far the hike is. If you had an upright wheely thingy and didn’t have a lot of stairs to manage I’d say it would be perfect for what you inquired about.

You might consider inviting Jeff to Sweden where you both can sit down and eat chocolate and discuss in greater detail.

 

[john-boro]

Just picked up a 10-2 after years of owning a shuttle 3-10 and extension cab.

I tried both that and the 12-3 but chose the 10-2 and will likely get another rather than the 12-3 though the mixed stack idea is cool too. Comparing to the previous STL 10 cabs, the 10-2 is bigger in all dimensions and feels more like a ‘real’ 10 inch cab than a micro cab. The lows are greatly improved vs my old STL 10 and the lack of boxiness is noticeable. Most of all (and in common with the 12-3) the mids and highs sound very sweet and as such useable to someone like me who doesn’t like too much gank and clack.

So I’m likely to go with a 2x 10-2 stack because as they are a noticeable upgrade sound and volume wise from my old pair of STL 10s. Amazing handle too.


Incidentally does anyone know of a source for the 10-2 fitted cover (not the carry bag) in the UK.

Great work, Jeff!

 

[Djadja]

Hi great folks!
I need your help with deciding between the 350combo plus eventually and additional 10-2 vs 800 with 12-3.

Have read almost every page in this thread and even though the subject has been discussed I’m having trouble picking.

I live in Sweden and won’t be able to try it out by my self unfortunately. Though I’m almost already in love with the Genz-gear just be reading

I play UB and an old 60s Kay EB.
Mainly pop and jazz groups in smaller to medium venues (80-300 people)

So as an electric bass player I want the sound to really fill the whole space. The pop groups I play in is kind of energetic bands with much energy and volume.

As an UB I want a natural sound but still be able to put it out there (play with gut strings)

And then there is the thing with carrying the stuff. Would love be able to go by public transport to smaller gigs though not at the expense of volume/sound.

To clarify:

How manageable is the 800/12-3 carrying?

How is the 800/12-3 handling double bass vs the 350 combo?

Would the 350 plus two 10-2 be a little to weak in some of the gigs?

Really appreciate all your suggestions and answers!!

I don’t play upright so I can’t address that bit but I have both heads and both cabs (1st generation BA12-3 with side handle).

My observations... only you can tell whether a given rig is loud enough for your settings.

800 vs. 350 head. Obviously the 800 goes louder and it does have the second channel that can be used to dirty things up or as a boost function. That said, the 350 sounds pretty much the same to my ears and is surprisingly potent at that lower wattage level. For me, it is enough. I already had the 800. If I had the 350 first, I would not feel the need for the 800 for my uses. If you don’t need/use the second channel or the additional power, it is a serious contender. Both have the same DI so when you have PA support, you’re golden with either.

The 10-2 feels much smaller to me and is a much easier schlep. I expect the newer handle makes the 12-3 easier than mine but it does still feel larger. In public transportation, the 10-2 definitely gets my nod... but only if it puts out enough sound for you. The 12-3 would be a bit unwieldy to me on public transport... YMMV. Of course, if the 10-2 isn’t loud enough for your use, it doesn’t matter how easy it is to carry... unless you have two

The voice is different with the 12-3 being deeper and rounder while the 10-2 is more punchy and brighter to my ears. Obviously the 12-3 is a bit louder. Both sit nicely in a mix and cut through the band well. There is an argument to be made for 2 matching cabs but I find these two play together very nicely and compliment each other.

The array design really works and both cabs get better coverage than other cabs their size that I have experienced. That makes a single cab more useable IMHO than other brands that I have used. Again, whether that works for you... I can’t say.

In either case, two cabs gives you more than double what one gives you. One will turn your head around... two makes it spin. For me, turning people’s heads around is enough 99.9% of the time and I use just one cab. Indeed, at this point I still have not taken both to a gig even though I could.

I really like the idea of the combo bag and have one... but it is big and unwieldy - kinda defeats the purpose of the small, easy schlep. It is very protective though. I almost never use it. One of these days I’ll get slip cover for the 10-2 and use that instead with the head in a small head bag or the pocket of my bass bag.

If you had two of the 10-2’s (one in each hand) and your electric bass on your back with the head in the pocket of the bass bag, that would be a relatively easy schlep on public transport and would cover any gig I’d want to do.

How loud is the drummer you play with? And how loud are the guitar players? As a rule of thumb, I like 10X the power of the lead guitar plus the same or more speaker area. Obviously how loud and aggressive the other players are impacts that significantly.

One of each cab plus the 350 head would give you lots of flexibility... or two of the same cab...

 

[Loring]

The 800 with the bag is super portable. The 12-3 is also easy. The 350 would be more so...

I haven’t tried the 350 but what I hear is very positive. Volume wise you should be fine as I never get over half volume and with 2 cabs never more than just over 1/4.

 

[draygriff]

Hi great folks!
I need your help with deciding between the 350combo plus eventually and additional 10-2 vs 800 with 12-3.

Have read almost every page in this thread and even though the subject has been discussed I’m having trouble picking.

I live in Sweden and won’t be able to try it out by my self unfortunately. Though I’m almost already in love with the Genz-gear just be reading

I play UB and an old 60s Kay EB.
Mainly pop and jazz groups in smaller to medium venues (80-300 people)

So as an electric bass player I want the sound to really fill the whole space. The pop groups I play in is kind of energetic bands with much energy and volume.

As an UB I want a natural sound but still be able to put it out there (play with gut strings)

And then there is the thing with carrying the stuff. Would love be able to go by public transport to smaller gigs though not at the expense of volume/sound.

To clarify:

How manageable is the 800/12-3 carrying?

How is the 800/12-3 handling double bass vs the 350 combo?

Would the 350 plus two 10-2 be a little to weak in some of the gigs?

Really appreciate all your suggestions and answers!!

I'm an electric bassist have an 800 and two BA-10's. I work with Country and Classic Rock bands. I rarely move the Master volume above 11:00 O'clock. I went with the BA-10's because I didn't want the "wooly" sound. I prefer more punch and note distinction. I did play the bass in high school and college orchestras so I have a small appreciation for the instrument. I did try a BA-12 once and it rattled the windows and made all the strings of the instruments hanging on the walls if the music store vibrate. The salesman gave me permission to "see what happens".
Given you will be using public transport I would suggest the 800 and a BA-12. I have never played the 350 so I shall allow for further comments regarding that amp to the other forum members.

 

[unbridled]

I've read a few pages and have questions that have already been asked, so please forgive me. I also have a few other questions. By the way, I want a quality rig that is light (I have M.S. and have broken my neck twice, and also had my back broken in five places.), will handle medium sized gigs or stage monitoring for gigs up to smaller outdoor festivals. Our drummer keeps in check and plays accordingly to the size of the venue. Country and Classic Rock.

How many folks are gigging the 10-2 cab (single or multiple) with 5-strings and are you happy with the sound and how they are holding up?

It sounds like the 10-2 and 12-3 cabs play well together. Anything you'd be concerned about with that combination with lots of time spent on the low end?

I've noticed that you need to be probably at least 10' in front of the cabs to get a true representation of the sound. What do you do in places where the stage isn't very deep? Set it on something? Tilt it even more than the angle of the slant cabs?

The M350/10-2 sounds good to me, but how do folks like the 10-2 with other heads? (I really like the specs of the TC Thrust 500)

Can anyone compare the M350/10-2 combo to some of the Markbass combos?

I think my options are:

Just 350/10-2 combo

350+ 2 10-2 cabs

350 combo + 12/3

350 combo + decent 210 vertical cab to get the 10/2 up some.

Or any combination of the cabs with another head.

I could also just put my 15" extension cab below the 350 combo.

Budget is $2k

Sorry to throw so much at you all.

 

[Djadja]

I've noticed that you need to be probably at least 10' in front of the cabs to get a true representation of the sound. What do you do in places where the stage isn't very deep? Set it on something? Tilt it even more than the angle of the slant cabs?

I’ll respond to just one of your questions. Let me make one disclaimer, all of the following is in my experience and my understanding... YMMV and Jeff can jump in and correct me at any point

I don’t know that “you need to be probably at least 10’ in front of the cabs to get true representation...”. The issue is one of dispersion which is always an issue with cabs. Most cabs sound different as you move around the stage and even the house. The array cabs trade off a little vertical dispersion for much better horizontal dispersion of the mids and highs. A result of this is that if the cab is on the floor and you’re standing close, you may miss the mids and highs. The frequencies are all there, they’re just going past you at knee level. So you could get closer - sit on the floor - and everything would sound just as it is. Tilting the cab a bit or lifting it will help to put you in the dispersion area while standing close by. And the positive of the better horizontal dispersion is that once you get the cab up a bit, your bass sounds the same all over the stage and throughout the house.

OTOH, if you’re on a small stage and have good FOH PA support and your amp does not need to feed the house, setting the cab on its side will give great vertical dispersion and lessen the horizontal... which might allow you to hear better while lessening bleed.

 

[KJMO]

Keep in mind the TC thrust is 500w MAX. I would bet the power is very similar to the MG350. Otherwise, you do get the compressor and a little color from the mosfet, maybe. And it's a lot cheaper, of course. I bet the tone would go well with the genzler cabs though, just from what people have been saying, and from hearing other tc amps.

 

[unbridled]

I’ll respond to just one of your questions. Let me make one disclaimer, all of the following is in my experience and my understanding... YMMV and Jeff can jump in and correct me at any point

I don’t know that “you need to be probably at least 10’ in front of the cabs to get true representation...”. The issue is one of dispersion which is always an issue with cabs. Most cabs sound different as you move around the stage and even the house. The array cabs trade off a little vertical dispersion for much better horizontal dispersion of the mids and highs. A result of this is that if the cab is on the floor and you’re standing close, you may miss the mids and highs. The frequencies are all there, they’re just going past you at knee level. So you could get closer - sit on the floor - and everything would sound just as it is. Tilting the cab a bit or lifting it will help to put you in the dispersion area while standing close by. And the positive of the better horizontal dispersion is that once you get the cab up a bit, your bass sounds the same all over the stage and throughout the house.

OTOH, if you’re on a small stage and have good FOH PA support and your amp does not need to feed the house, setting the cab on its side will give great vertical dispersion and lessen the horizontal... which might allow you to hear better while lessening bleed.

I just like to know what the audience hears so I can sound my best. I should have qualified that question by saying that, generally, situations where I'm really close to my amp usually aren't very high stages, so, getting my cab where I can hear all of the frequencies should do the same for the audience.

Wireless comes in handy to get things dialed in. Then, once I know it's sounding good, I'm ok with only hearing some of the frequencies during the show.

 

[Donovan]

Oh how I love Talkbass, thank you all for you help!!

I have a 350 and use a single 12-3 for small things and rehearsals and use another 12-3 (slant) for most gigs.

Thanks @RNG1! Have you ever felt that the 350 was a little under powered? And if so, in what kind of situation regarding size of the place and music was that? And what made you by the 12-3 instead of 10-2?

You might consider inviting Jeff to Sweden where you both can sit down and eat chocolate and discuss in greater detail.

He does feel like the guy you really could enjoy sitting down eating chocolate and discuss gear with

 

[Donovan]

800 vs. 350 head. Obviously the 800 goes louder and it does have the second channel that can be used to dirty things up or as a boost function.

Thank you so much @revroy for taking your time to help me!
My EB goes really well with tube-amps. Would you say that the drive-channel on the 800 has some of that quality?

The voice is different with the 12-3 being deeper and rounder while the 10-2 is more punchy and brighter to my ears. Obviously the 12-3 is a bit louder. Both sit nicely in a mix and cut through the band well. There is an argument to be made for 2 matching cabs but I find these two play together very nicely and compliment each other.

Would you say 2x 10-2 brings back some of the deeper bottom or just bringing more of the same?

How loud is the drummer you play with? And how loud are the guitar players? As a rule of thumb, I like 10X the power of the lead guitar plus the same or more speaker area. Obviously how loud and aggressive the other players are impacts that significantly.

I just realized it's so hard to discuss this things cause everything is based on your own experiences and references. How loud is loud??
I wouldn't say that they play really loud, they are really adaptive to the venue and how much we put in the monitors etc. Is there any possibility to compare the different "combos" with other amps loudness?
I have mostly played GK 200MB/MB150 for the DB and Ampeg (various models) for EB.
The GK has never really felt enough for me for UB, and I've also had a hard time getting the sound I wanted. Since that is a 12", my logic says that I should get the 12-3 since I lacked a lot of bottom end, but mainly maybe volume. But I know there is a lot more to it than that.

I'm now standing between ordering following alternatives

350 + 2 x 10-2
350 + 1 x 10-2 & 1 x 12-3
800 + 1 x 12-3

How does these alternatives stand between each other?
For example, is there still a lot more volume and deep bottom in the 800/12-3 vs 350/10-2 PAIR?

 

[RNG1]

Revroy, in response to you questions:
Regarding the 350 being loud enough, I originally got it as my “small” usage amp as I have a rack for what I’ve had for larger things. However I recently used the 350 on a gig where I would have normally used my rack and I was very surprised how loud and clean it was. It’s funny I hear people saying they never have the 800 past 11:00 and yet on the gig I was referring to I don’t think I had the 350 past 12:00 with both my 12-3 and it was plenty loud.

Regarding the 10-2:
I may be wrong but I don’t think that those were available when I got both my
12-3 Or I certainly would’ve check those out as I really like the sound of 10s especially multiple 10. There is no question that if I were still gigging like 4/5 times a week I would get the new 410 cabinet. I imagine 2 of the 10-2 would be amazing as well. I’ve heard people using a 10-2 on top of a 12-3. That’s something I might do as well.
Most of this are just my thoughts but hopefully some of it is helpful. Either way you can’t go wrong with this stuff, seriously.

 

[iceboxbass]

I'm an electric bassist have an 800 and two BA-10's. I work with Country and Classic Rock bands. I rarely move the Master volume above 11:00 O'clock. I went with the BA-10's because I didn't want the "wooly" sound. I prefer more punch and note distinction. I did play the bass in high school and college orchestras so I have a small appreciation for the instrument. I did try a BA-12 once and it rattled the windows and made all the strings of the instruments hanging on the walls if the music store vibrate. The salesman gave me permission to "see what happens".
Given you will be using public transport I would suggest the 800 and a BA-12. I have never played the 350 so I shall allow for further comments regarding that amp to the other forum members.

Lol, yeah the same thing happens to all of my racked string instruments in my practice room. Except that I’m using the 800with 2 BA-12-3s with volume level @1 or less!

 

[Donovan]

Regarding the 10-2:
I may be wrong but I don’t think that those were available when I got both my
12-3 Or I certainly would’ve check those out as I really like the sound of 10s especially multiple 10. There is no question that if I were still gigging like 4/5 times a week I would get the new 410 cabinet. I imagine 2 of the 10-2 would be amazing as well. I’ve heard people using a 10-2 on top of a 12-3. That’s something I might do as well.

Thanks a lot @RNG1!
I'm leaning towards 800 + 2 x 10-2 at the moment
I think the 350 might be enough but since I love to play tubes with my EB, I have a feeling the drive channel might fill some of that function, am I right?

Also, would there be any problems using only one 10-2 with the 800? in terms of underpowering, I guess not?
but I've often just played on the things at the venues and haven't felt the need to understand so much

 

[Loring]

Thanks a lot @RNG1!
I'm leaning towards 800 + 2 x 10-2 at the moment
I think the 350 might be enough but since I love to play tubes with my EB, I have a feeling the drive channel might fill some of that function, am I right?

Also, would there be any problems using only one 10-2 with the 800? in terms of underpowering, I guess not?
but I've often just played on the things at the venues and haven't felt the need to understand so much

If you go this route just be aware the 800 does have the power to cook these...

You can limit the output by switching to the 2.67ohm setting. It may help but not if you just raise the volume anyways...

I rarely go up to a volume level that would cook the 10’s anyway...

 

[Donovan]

If you go this route just be aware the 800 does have the power to cook these...

You can limit the output by switching to the 2.67ohm setting. It may help but not if you just raise the volume anyways...

I rarely go up to a volume level that would cook the 10’s anyway...

Ah, thanks @Loring for the heads up!
So the 350 is better in that sense if I would switch between two vs one 10-2?
Do you have the 800?
Is the drive channel tube-ish? Or more of a dist?

 

[Loring]

I would say at low drive it’s tubish but once you get around 12:00 or higher more overdrive- distortion like (still light end of distortion and very musical). One thing I like about the drive channel is it is very responsive to how hard you dig in. On the same setting I can go from clean to a very overdriven sound.

If I thought I needed half volume on a 10-2 with the 800, I would add the second cab to get more volume vs turning it up further...

Having said that. The 12’s are pretty punching - not wooly or soft sounding at all. They will maintain more of the fundamentals so may not be as low mid forward as the 10’s. Not too bad for carrying either. Especially with the newer design top handle.

 

[Donovan]

I would say at low drive it’s tubish but once you get around 12:00 or higher more overdrive- distortion like (still light end of distortion and very musical). One thing I like about the drive channel is it is very responsive to how hard you dig in. On the same setting I can go from clean to a very overdriven sound.

If I thought I needed half volume on a 10-2 with the 800, I would add the second cab to get more volume vs turning it up further...

Thanks @Loring!! So if I would go with two 10-2 (for economical and transportation reason) would you say that the 350 is a better match?
And the 800 is in better pair with 12-3s?
I think I would want to bring one amp when playing UB in smaller venues and bring both when needed for EB and bigger venues.

Regarding the differences between the cabs, which one is middier?
Usually, with my bass and most of the amps I’ve used, I turn almost all middle down and keep the bass and treble kind of neutral. So I would say I’m after a kind of bassy, low-middy sound with good details and highs.