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Genzler Amplification ! New Genz Benz ?

#541
You may be right.. I really have no idea.. i asked the crew guy. he said they were normal piezos... .But they would sort thru many to find ones they could use. Mind you this is an older Meyer rig and not the new line array stuff.. so who knows.... it did sound great...way better than a Claire rig they had the year before.
Anyway . Id done enough OT on my own thread so Im out of here.. Carry on folks


B-string said:
Think those may have cost more than a couple bucks each? ;)
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#542
bebass said:
"implementing this concept for us bass players"
My understanding was the jack 12 was a pro sound cab design .
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Electric bass is pro-sound.
Yes, pretty much entirely different designs. If we wanted to compare a BF design we could pair a Simplexx and a SLA with appropriate crossovers. But it wouldn't be "point source".
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Jack 12 is point source. It's not a direct radiator, it's better, it's a straight horn.
 
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#546
Rick James said:
Electric bass is pro-sound.
Jack 12 is point source. It's not a direct radiator, it's better, it's a straight horn.
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Sure electric bass is pro-sound. And I can choose to play my bass through an EV, Yorkville Sound, or RCF pro-sound setup. But the sound shaping strategy for prosound and for electric bass stage tonality are not exactly the same. Thus there is equipment designed specifically for guitar, specifically for bass guitar, and specifically for reinforcement of that particular tonality desired by the music creators. I am thinking that the art of using nothing but sound-reinforcement along with stage amp-simulators is not quite there yet, although I admit an argument could be made for the simplicity of such a setup. I'll admit to using such, but there is nothing like the FEEL of a good bass guitar specific amp/cab on stage. And IMO this feel has a large contribution to why many like playing. At least it does for me. And I am not going to drag PS12Ps with LS801P's along with a bass pre up on the stage to utilize for my bass guitar - although I could. And certainly, if that is what any particular bass player wishes to use, more power to them.

The Jack is a nice horn-approximation cab. Sure it is a "point source". Not a straight horn, but a horn approximation. A true horn would be immensely larger.
I designed and constructed my first horn enclosure, with a much deeper folded horn approximation, in the early 70's, and played bass through it for a long time. I prefer pure bass reflex, helmholtz resonators (and had a brief argument with Paul Klipsch about such - ha ha) along with crossovered mids, as there is a definite sound profile difference. The Jack also utilizes a piezo tweeter array while the Genzler utilizes a mid-array which IMO much better reinforces SPECIFICly bass guitar. I think the Jack a fine horn approximation; nice cab. And I personally would use it with a better top end than the piezo array. But choosing it as a bass guitar specific cab WITH the piezo array? Not me, although I am sure many would like it. I would use a pair without the array to play bass through. And was actually thinking about building a pair; they are efficient designs! I just don't like the piezos as an array and the horizontal profile would be drastically different from the Genzler's mid-upper profile due to the crossover frequencies as well as the inherent piezo profile.
I really don't understand the comparison as they actually are two different animals. Both having their strengths in their applications. As I have already said, IMO if we wanted to compare a BF design to the Genzler design it would be his simplexx, which I am a fan of, paired with his SLA, utilizing specific crossovers. But that too, is different due to the array mounting and the need for two enclosures.

I am really looking forward to testing the Genzler product.
 
#548
JMic113 said:
Not that the origins of line-array technology discussion in Pro Audio isn't satisfying...
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wave rider said:
Is this a Genzler thread or a bash BFM thread?

=wr=
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I think it a Genzler thread. And if you referring to my posts, I wasn't at all bashing BFM as I like his designs, but simply explaining the differences and that there was no reason for comparison of the two products mentioned as they are entirely different. And I also listed two of his products which sound wise IMO would compare.
 
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#549
bebass said:
I think it a Genzler thread. And if you referring to my posts, I wasn't at all bashing BFM as I like his designs, but simply explaining the differences and that there was no reason for comparison of the two products mentioned as they are entirely different. And I also listed two of his products which sound wise IMO would compare.
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Just a question about the direction and tone of the thread...

=wr=
 
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#553
B-string said:
Someone said something about Genzler's design being influenced by BFM's offerings. Was that meant as Genzler bashing? The reference was just off the mark as is being explained.
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I have no idea what the intentions of the poster bringing up BFM are.

In my limited knowledge, short of a completely new way of creating sound waves, it has all been done before. All designers are riffing off the inherent limitations of cone and magnet transducers. Being influenced by other designs is not a bad thing.

Really interested in Jeff's design, not concerned about who influenced it, am hopeful it turns out to be a home run.

=wr=
 
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#554
Jeff Scott said:
I don't think there is any bashing going on
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Of course there is. Where Bstring is concerned he never misses an opportunity to bash BFM any time the name comes up.
trying to show that there really is no real comparison between the GA and BFM designs other than superficial (the basic look and placement of some components, sort of, in different designs).
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The question was whether the GA design is new or unique in placing a vertical array of midranges in front of a single woofer. It isn't. Many others have done that, BFM being one of them. Pointing that out isn't bashing.
 
#556
Rick James said:
Of course there is. Where Bstring is concerned he never misses an opportunity to bash BFM any time the name comes up. The question was whether the GA design is new or unique in placing a vertical array of midranges in front of a single woofer. It isn't. Many others have done that, BFM being one of them. Pointing that out isn't bashing.
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I guess it all depends on how narrowly one defines "new" and "unique".

For whatever it may be worth, I've posted about this cabinet on a couple of forums, and I have looked around the internet on my own for any 4+1 cabinet that uses a single 12" and four 3" drivers, and I haven't found a single example so far, bass-specific or more general-duty.

So, that vertical array of midranges with no separate piezo/horn/dome tweeter may, in fact, be unique.

That, in and of itself, is pretty astonishing considering this is a configuration that could have been built at any time in the last 50 years or so.

To diminish this design in any way by implying "it's nothing new" is being pretty disingenuous, and ignores how challenging it can be in a mature maket (like speaker design) to develop something that is truly innovative.

As for the "first" line array setup I can remember learning about, it was the Grateful Dead's "Wall of Sound", but you'll see no concentric cone drivers here:

grateful.jpg
 
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