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Genzler Amplification ! New Genz Benz ?

#582
In NY they actually had TYPING classes.. It was on the old typewriter and carriage return.. Nothing like today..I think Spellcheck makes us dumber.. you dont have to think. everyone just pushes buttons and lets auto correct make the choice.. And like earlier, it chose the wrong word. .and me.. I DIDN'T proof read it.. . .Ha.. I just dont worry about it ...
I have too much to do I have to move along and get stuff that actually matters done and complete! hahah

Jeff Scott said:
Typing class??? I don't recall any typing that I learned way back then. I am still a lousee tipits, and it just seeems to get wurs teh older I get! Previewing and post-editing are grate tüls to had. ;) :smug:
Click to expand...
 
#583
BTL said:
Well, since the 3s are what set this design apart visually, let's hear a little more about them.

Are they Faitals, too...custom or off-the-shelf...open or closed back...sensitivity, etc.?

How did you arrive a the 4 x 3" array vs. some other configuration?

Is the array level adjustable?
Click to expand...

Yes, these are Faital as well. I've considered many small drivers for this type of design for several years. Actually back in the late 80's we produced the GB15T-BB ---- a design in collaboration with Brian Bromberg. It had a 15" and 2 x 4" drivers and no tweeters---because of his piezo/bridge pick up systems. Again very smooth response for that generation of cabinets.

With the Bass Array, the 3" drivers were chosen for their performance in the critical frequency range they would be producing and for their compact size.
They are not sealed back speakers but all 4 are loaded into a very small array (column) with a radius back.
As for their sensitivity, you can't necessarily go by the spec sheet because of the increased acoustic sensitivity obtained by the line array design.

After much testing, we chose a crossover point around 800Hz and the results are an extremely smooth response and transition from the woofer to the array and all the way past 12K.

There is no adjustability to the array as it is perfectly matched with the 12" woofer. Again there is no separation of audio source from the combination of the components. Frankly we've found that because of the smooth response (without the dips and spikes you'd see in a traditional woofer/tweeter cab) the detail and adjustments you can achieve with your amplifiers EQ are much more defined.

It really is a cabinet that needs to be auditioned to appreciate the simplicity and complexity of the response.

I hope this information is helpful.

Jeff
 
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#584
Fishface said:
Yep... I asked, and thanks for the response.
Are they a "LF" type design with extended xmax?
I'm in the market for a couple of 12" cabs, akin to the "super-twelve" cabs out there (the Baer cabs are one my short list) with dedicated mids, and this seems to fit the bill, but would like some more info on the twelve I guess.
Click to expand...

We tested many 12" woofers during the design and proto type stage, many of which were those with extended LF parameters. We chose the Faital for it's overall performance in this compact enclosure and for its efficiency up through the low mids. The response of this woofer in this cabinet is exceptional in the low end----several testers mentioned how strong it was with the fundamental of the B string from their premier 5 string instruments.

BTW---- there are 2 triangular ports in the lower corners of the baffle.

Regards,

Jeff
 
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#585
svtb15 said:
i haven't even heard the box... but the pics look cool
Whats cool about the 12-3 is its an all paper cone cab.. That alone adds a nice dimension.
90% of bass cabs have a compression tweeter sitting in the corner of the box, and by the very nature of that config it may be difficult to have a smooth blend between low freq driver and the tweet.. Often there is a sonic hole.. . Which can be great for some style or players.. Me too. I dig it at times.
Sure other companies have made 2 way bass boxes with all paper cones.. But none that i know of have done a Line Array type like the 12-3. If it goes deep and has smooth tradition it could be a home run
Click to expand...

Hey Kirk, I know you have not heard this cabinet yet but you nailed a lot of what you can expect from it.
And certainly it may not be for everyone, that is why companies continue to do very well with traditional 12 and tweeter cabinets.
 
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#587
Regarding the MSL-3's, thinking back the very first version used 2440 HF drivers (there may have even been some with 2482's) which had excellent mid performance up through 10-12kHz but fell off pretty quickly above that point. Because of this, I do recall the piezo drivers (actually crossed over, and pretty high up there) being offered as an option, but as soon as the 2445/2450 variants became available (and iirc John started using a customized version well before they were available commercially) the piezo option was dropped. All the ones I used to service did not have the piezos installed, but one system did have the older HF drivers and multiple JBL slot tweeters installed. The transition had to have been over 30 years ago, the 'ol memory is a bit foggy! I haven't thought about the MSL series for years. Meyer is local to me so I saw and serviced quite a few.

Back in the day I had 4 original 650 subs with 8 original UPA-1's, quite a potent PA but ungodly heavy. Close to 1500 lbs just for the cabinets! Things have changed for the better for sure.
 
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#588
Jeff Genzler said:
[...] It really is a cabinet that needs to be auditioned to appreciate the simplicity and complexity of the response.

I hope this information is helpful.

Jeff
Click to expand...
Sounds really nice, and a very thoughtful design.

Are you auditioning it with prototype amps, or existing designs?

Does this cabinet impart a certain "color", or does it come across as more "transparent", reflecting the precise character and nature of the amp and instrument?

It sounds like much more of the latter.

I'm really looking forward to hearing one.

:cool:
 
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#589
I know it will be a home run

Jeff Genzler said:
Hey Kirk, I know you have not heard this cabinet yet but you nailed a lot of what you can expect from it.
And certainly it may not be for everyone, that is why companies continue to do very well with traditional 12 and tweeter cabinets.
Click to expand...
 
#590
Jeff Genzler said:
Yes, these are Faital as well. I've considered many small drivers for this type of design for several years. Actually back in the late 80's we produced the GB15T-BB ---- a design in collaboration with Brian Bromberg. It had a 15" and 2 x 4" drivers and no tweeters---because of his piezo/bridge pick up systems. Again very smooth response for that generation of cabinets.

With the Bass Array, the 3" drivers were chosen for their performance in the critical frequency range they would be producing and for their compact size.
They are not sealed back speakers but all 4 are loaded into a very small array (column) with a radius back.
As for their sensitivity, you can't necessarily go by the spec sheet because of the increased acoustic sensitivity obtained by the line array design.

After much testing, we chose a crossover point around 800Hz and the results are an extremely smooth response and transition from the woofer to the array and all the way past 12K.

There is no adjustability to the array as it is perfectly matched with the 12" woofer. Again there is no separation of audio source from the combination of the components. Frankly we've found that because of the smooth response (without the dips and spikes you'd see in a traditional woofer/tweeter cab) the detail and adjustments you can achieve with your amplifiers EQ are much more defined.

It really is a cabinet that needs to be auditioned to appreciate the simplicity and complexity of the response.

I hope this information is helpful.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Well done! Lets the amp and bass EQ work like it's supposed to eliminating the guess work out of adjusting a tweeter.
 
#591
agedhorse said:
piezo drivers (actually crossed over, and pretty high up there)
Click to expand...
Even (especially?) the cheapo piezos benefit from being crossed over above their "natural" crossover point. Their response tends to be quite spiky there. I still have the small Peavey piezo boxes I used to run over my four Bose 802's when not using Bose's EQ (and using subs under them) - three real Motorola ones in each box splayed. I never did add a crossover to them as they weren't problematic but have on a few "modern" cabs - it also increases their "power handling".
 
#595
Jeff Genzler said:
Yes, these are Faital as well. I've considered many small drivers for this type of design for several years. Actually back in the late 80's we produced the GB15T-BB ---- a design in collaboration with Brian Bromberg. It had a 15" and 2 x 4" drivers and no tweeters---because of his piezo/bridge pick up systems. Again very smooth response for that generation of cabinets.

With the Bass Array, the 3" drivers were chosen for their performance in the critical frequency range they would be producing and for their compact size.
They are not sealed back speakers but all 4 are loaded into a very small array (column) with a radius back.
As for their sensitivity, you can't necessarily go by the spec sheet because of the increased acoustic sensitivity obtained by the line array design.

After much testing, we chose a crossover point around 800Hz and the results are an extremely smooth response and transition from the woofer to the array and all the way past 12K.

There is no adjustability to the array as it is perfectly matched with the 12" woofer. Again there is no separation of audio source from the combination of the components. Frankly we've found that because of the smooth response (without the dips and spikes you'd see in a traditional woofer/tweeter cab) the detail and adjustments you can achieve with your amplifiers EQ are much more defined.

It really is a cabinet that needs to be auditioned to appreciate the simplicity and complexity of the response.

I hope this information is helpful.

Jeff
Click to expand...


Jeff,

Answers to some of the questions I was thinking of. Thanks!.....and hoping to hear them real soon!
 
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#597
atrapp said:
This 12-3 looks really cool for dedicated flats user. For larger halls with no FOH where you might need more than one cabinet, any chance of a matching 12 only, or is it necessary for all cabs to have the same array? Or perhaps a 2/12-3?
Click to expand...

In a large hall with no FOH is exactly the place where you'd want two BA12-3 cabs stacked together. The benefits of the line array design are that much more beneficial in such a situation---with increased projection and definition.

We had a very experienced FOH engineer as part of the testing team and he was extremely impressed with the penetration and dispersion of 2 together---especially on stages where you'd usually see an 8x10.

I guess the short answer is --- no single 12" only cabs are planned.

Oh, ErnieD.......you crack me up:D!
 
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