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Genzler Amplification ! New Genz Benz ?

#741
I have a question regarding the 123...

as I understand it, the line array increases the horizontal dispersion (maybe significantly) and lessens the vertical dispersion (also perhaps significantly) correct?

If that is correct, then, what happens with this small cab when placed on the floor? If I'm standing close to it, does that mean the mids and highs all go right past me at knee level? And if the floor level for the band is the same level as for the audience, does that mean that the audience will not hear much of the mids and highs unless they're seated... on the floor?

Or if I angle the cab from the floor to point towards my ears, what will the audience hear?

Or do I need to get the cab up off the floor, close to ear level to be able to hear those frequencies? And if I do that, what happens to the lows?

finally, would it be proper Jeff to ask a question comparing this design to the 1288? I know it is a radically different design but my gut tells me that there might have been some overlap in the intent of the design - to strengthen the mids and remove those frequencies from the woofer, allowing it to do what it does best.
 
#742
Having listened to one my impression was the vertical dispersion is about the same as a "normal" cab but the horizontal dispersion is WAY better. That said, no small cab is going to work well aimed at your ankles. Sad thing is there's no economical solution that isn't gonna fugly up the cab :( . Here's the "stands" from the NEGTG ;) :

img_0375-jpg-doug-9-20-jpg.jpg
 
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#744
^ That's a pretty fugly amp so the "stand" doesn't matter - although it do look like you spent quite a bit of time tracking down the fugliest milkcrate ever made ;) ?

Those Genzler cabs are pretty, putting them up on milkcrates just ain't right ;) . A faux one or two would make an awesome stand but probably prohibitively expensive :( and take up too much car-space unless somehow made collapsible?.
 
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#748
Djadja said:
I have a question regarding the 123...

as I understand it, the line array increases the horizontal dispersion (maybe significantly) and lessens the vertical dispersion (also perhaps significantly) correct?

If that is correct, then, what happens with this small cab when placed on the floor? If I'm standing close to it, does that mean the mids and highs all go right past me at knee level? And if the floor level for the band is the same level as for the audience, does that mean that the audience will not hear much of the mids and highs unless they're seated... on the floor?

Or if I angle the cab from the floor to point towards my ears, what will the audience hear?

Or do I need to get the cab up off the floor, close to ear level to be able to hear those frequencies? And if I do that, what happens to the lows?

finally, would it be proper Jeff to ask a question comparing this design to the 1288? I know it is a radically different design but my gut tells me that there might have been some overlap in the intent of the design - to strengthen the mids and remove those frequencies from the woofer, allowing it to do what it does best.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the questions. I would not say that that the Line Array concept for the mids/highs of the Bass Array 12-3 lessens the vertical dispersion when compared to conventional woofer/tweeter cabs of similar size, but that the vertical dispersion is more controlled.
A 12" woofer has a more conical dispersion through its usable bandwidth with dispersion narrowing somewhat as frequency rises. This is the beaminess that is contributed to some 12" and 15" woofers --- and different manufacturers have different results with this issue.
What works well in the BA12-3 is the control of the important mids/highs providing a more articulate response over all frequencies within it's bandwidth. This is why we chose to have the array produce the important 600 hz and above frequencies.
Real-world results report a more room-filling, even dispersion around the venue.

About it being a small cab and standing directly in front of it, certainly you would need some separation away from the cabinet just like you would with any other similar sized cab. And a slight tilt up would certainly help the performer on tight stages or placing it on a short riser. I see more and more players wanting their cabs up off the floor slightly regardless of stage sizes.

Regarding a comparison of the BA12-3 design intent and the UBER Quad, I think the only crossover intend is that we chose to address the mids in a different way with both designs. The UBER Quad due to its component placement has a somewhat 3D impression while still using a compression tweeter for the top end.
With the BA12-3 all frequencies appear to be produced from a single point in the cabinet---with the common descriptive terms being "smooth", articulate and deep from those using it now. And obviously the BA12-3 is about 1/2 the size of the UBER Quad.

I hope this is helpful.
 
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#749
middy said:
A black "tablecloth" over the milk crates works wonders...
Click to expand...
Ooh... I like that.

I've used an "Ampwedge" (big, rubber wedge), a large doorstop, and a milk crate before. There are some folding strands for anywhere from $20 to $50+ on Musician's Friend and similar sites. Some angle the cab(s) back a bit, but I'm not sure how that would work when stacking two... The back would have to be tall or... velcro (half kidding).
 
#754
A simple one step stepstool does the trick as well, and tends to "disappear" more on stage than a milk crate. Plus some of them fold up nice and flat for storage/transportation.
IME, the 12-3 isn't any better or worse at stage monitoring than any other compact 12 cab when not elevated or tilted. But it REALLY excels in dispersion, and the evenness + "Heft" of ALL notes played out in the room.
 
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#757
Btw, anyone looking check these out in the Seattle area should head over to Thunder Road Guitars. Chad Beeler, cofounder of Bass Northwest, has a new shop contained inside Thunder Road and he will have some of these cabs available to try.
 
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#759
One more question friends...

how loud does the 12-3 get before it begins to struggle? I find the specs that some companies give of a max volume before problems set in helpful, but I realize that some of those numbers may not really be accurate.

I don't play in particularly loud settings although I do play in a 5 piece band with a drummer (not a crazy banger) and a lead guitar who can get... loud. I know that physics are physics and a single 12 inch speaker can only do so much but I'm not experienced enough to know what I might expect from this one... how loud can it go? I'm positive it will do 95% of my gigs... but unsure about the final 5%... any thoughts?
 
#760
Djadja said:
One more question friends...

how loud does the 12-3 get before it begins to struggle? I find the specs that some companies give of a max volume before problems set in helpful, but I realize that some of those numbers may not really be accurate.

I don't play in particularly loud settings although I do play in a 5 piece band with a drummer (not a crazy banger) and a lead guitar who can get... loud. I know that physics are physics and a single 12 inch speaker can only do so much but I'm not experienced enough to know what I might expect from this one... how loud can it go? I'm positive it will do 95% of my gigs... but unsure about the final 5%... any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Thoughts
Loudness is a subjective term. It can be measured as SPL (different weightings apply) at a given distance and is usually measured on-axis but really what exact meaning does that have to us as bass players? I personally have never had satisfaction using a single 12 of any brand with a loud drummer and two guitar players. I did perform a test with the mentioned speaker and a 200 watt micro bass amp. It was my subjective feeling that it was loud enough FOR ME to play with a drummer for lite type gigs and my subjective feeling that I would need two for full-blown High Voltage Rock N Roll. Bear in mind that anyone's subjective feeling may or may not coincide with anyone else's. Music style, playing style, band members and their gear, venue size, and amplifier all have input to this equation. Dang, NOW I got AC/DC "High Voltage Rock N Roll" running around my brain.
 

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