Get Off My Lawn: Downtuning

[definenredefine]

I refuse to be in a band that down tunes. I played in one and I didn't downtime, just played in Eb on many of the E songs. Not a problem. To me, it's a sign of players who can't play their instruments as they should be played. None of the reasons for it are valid to me. Just my opinion.

I would encourage you to listen to Meshuggah and see if that's not EXACTLY as their instruments were meant to be played.

...

That sounded harsh. Apologies. What I mean to say is that some folks play heavily downtuned instruments and make music that is just...so harsh and I love it. So I bristled a bit at this statement.

Again, apologies.

 

[6thplanet]

Drop tuning is totally metal! ...of course Slayer didn't need it.

My first metal band, I used a 5 tuned half step down. This covered the guitar tuned E flat, that tuned down to drop D, and his 7 tuned flat.
Latest band is drop C, I use a 4 tuned to C.

Ha! Truth. When I commuted on I-94 every day I often found myself grumbling "you don't get extra points for being ahead of me."

....ahhh, yes it does. Stay in the frickin right lane and shut your freaking left turn signal off!!!! I have a race to win.

And for fruck sake, learn how to merge! No one is doing 45mph on the highway!!!
GET OFF MY LAWN.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

its way better than up tuning

I actually do that.
I joined a band a few months ago that is led by an acoustic guitar player down tunes to Eb for his voice, but I refuse to down tune. It changes the sound and feel of a bass and the stress on the instrument. So, I went to a 5 string to avoid the down tune. But then, when I practice at home, I'm on a different fret than when playing with the band. That confuses my because my memory tells my fingers 4th string, 3rd fret when what I really want is 2nd fret. So, I took one of my 5 strings and tuned up a half step so I can play on the same fret I will be on with the band.

 

[Slade N]

I actually do that.
I joined a band a few months ago that is led by an acoustic guitar player down tunes to Eb for his voice, but I refuse to down tune. It changes the sound and feel of a bass and the stress on the instrument. So, I went to a 5 string to avoid the down tune. But then, when I practice at home, I'm on a different fret than when playing with the band. That confuses my because my memory tells my fingers 4th string, 3rd fret when what I really want is 2nd fret. So, I took one of my 5 strings and tuned up a half step so I can play on the same fret I will be on with the band.

ya gotta do what ya gotta do

 

[dspellman]

My plan to design a 30Hz capable bass cab didn’t fly with many people who insist it’s never been done that way and absolutely shouldn’t be. Even inspired a sexist rant on AVS Forum against me.

...
I guess I’ll find out if I’m right in a couple of years when I’m ready to build the thing.

Guess so. I've got a pair of the previously mentioned F115 fEARless cabs and 1500W to work with, and I really haven't paid much attention to 30Hz (though the keyboards can certainly generate that). I can't understand the point of tuning a bass guitar below that low B, and I'm just wondering if it would be meaningful in the context of an audience (even an audience of one) hearing it. At some point I'll chase down a PA system capable of generating 30Hz (most aren't, at the volumes the rest of the PA is putting out) and check it out with a keyboard first. Keep us posted on the cabinet if you build it.

 

[Sid Fang]

There will probably be several similar replies here, but on the 30Hz cab thing, it may need to be pointed out that, psychoacoustically, you don't need to produce 30Hz for people to hear the low B. The brain will back-fill based on the overtone series. Much more practical to be accurate with 60, 90, 120Hz.

 

[scottfeldstein]

There will probably be several similar replies here, but on the 30Hz cab thing, it may need to be pointed out that, psychoacoustically, you don't need to produce 30Hz for people to hear the low B. The brain will back-fill based on the overtone series. Much more practical to be accurate with 60, 90, 120Hz.

For sure. I don't want frequencies that low going through my cabs. It's why I use a HPF - and how I can get so much performance out of a couple of 112 cabs.

 

[4stringfarley]

Strauss used drop B in Don Quixote

 

[Harper]

Wow. Harsh. Even my self-deprecating confession generates nothing but negativity.

Did you expect anything else? You must be new here

 

[viking power]

This will probably be buried in this thread, however, I’ll post anyway. Maybe I’ll get some useful help?

I’m a fairly inexperienced bass player. I am not in a band. I like a lot of heavy music and my roots are early to mid-80’s punk and metal.

I don’t want to tune my bass different every time I want to learn a new song.

I want to actually learn and know where the notes are on the instrument.

I feel like different tunings will not help me actually learn the instrument.

As I dig up tabs for songs I like I keep running into different drop tunings starting with Sabbath all the way to the Dead Kennedys. Kinda frustrated. Would love to learn Tool tunes. Don’t really want to drop the tuning and just learn patterns that have no deeper meaning to my learning as a musician.

Any advice or thoughts?

I realize this is a bit of a rant. It isn’t a criticism of musicians being creative and doing what they want. Not at all. I just don’t know how to navigate it as a novice that wants to build a repertoire.

Thanks to anyone that has some input for me.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

This will probably be buried in this thread, however, I’ll post anyway. Maybe I’ll get some useful help?

I’m a fairly inexperienced bass player. I am not in a band. I like a lot of heavy music and my roots are early to mid-80’s punk and metal.

I don’t want to tune my bass different every time I want to learn a new song.

I want to actually learn and know where the notes are on the instrument.

I feel like different tunings will not help me actually learn the instrument.

As I dig up tabs for songs I like I keep running into different drop tunings starting with Sabbath all the way to the Dead Kennedys. Kinda frustrated. Would love to learn Tool tunes. Don’t really want to drop the tuning and just learn patterns that have no deeper meaning to my learning as a musician.

Any advice or thoughts?

I realize this is a bit of a rant. It isn’t a criticism of musicians being creative and doing what they want. Not at all. I just don’t know how to navigate it as a novice that wants to build a repertoire.

Thanks to anyone that has some input for me.

I'm sure lots of fans of drop tunings and newish or older metal with drop tunings may disagree, but I think you're right to focus on a default EADG rather than experimenting with other tunings. Although the different tunings probably would help you learn the full range of the instrument, personally I think it's a good idea to learn that basic tuning inside out before branching out. It is a bummer it keeps you from playing some of those songs, but there are a gazillion heavy songs in standard tuning that can keep you busy in the meantime.

I also know people who swear you have to have a 5-string bass.

Different strokes and all, but i feel like I have a lifetime of learning to do with my measly little 4 strings and boring old standard tuning.

 

[viking power]

I'm sure lots of fans of drop tunings and newish or older metal with drop tunings may disagree, but I think you're right to focus on a default EADG rather than experimenting with other tunings. Although the different tunings probably would help you learn the full range of the instrument, personally I think it's a good idea to learn that basic tuning inside out before branching out. It is a bummer it keeps you from playing some of those songs, but there are a gazillion heavy songs in standard tuning that can keep you busy in the meantime.

I also know people who swear you have to have a 5-string bass.

Different strokes and all, but i feel like I have a lifetime of learning to do with my measly little 4 strings and boring old standard tuning.

That’s helpful. Appreciate your thoughts man. Yeah, I’m sure there are plenty of std tuning songs for me out there.
Also, I’ve considered the 5 string thing as well and feel like 4 is plenty for me to try to get a good handle on.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

That’s helpful. Appreciate your thoughts man. Yeah, I’m sure there are plenty of std tuning songs for me out there.
Also, I’ve considered the 5 string thing as well and feel like 4 is plenty for me to try to get a good handle on.

Sure thing man. And I love the bass in your avatar/profile pic. Looks cool af.

 

[viking power]

Sure thing man. And I love the bass in your avatar/profile pic. Looks cool af.

Such a happy little accident (to quote Bob Ross)! The painting matching my new bass makes me smile every time I see it. Just got the bass a few weeks ago and I’m in love with it.

 

[6thplanet]

The "patterns" you learn in standard tuning still apply with a half step down, like later Sabbath. Stuff in drop D wiil apply to half step drop D or even drop C.

 

[rutrho]

Mmmmmm downtuning. I use a bunch of different tunings for stuff we play, either Drop A on a 5er, or drop A/D.... Or A standard. This is all to match either stuff in standard tuning or drop D... or drop C. Realistically I use drop A for almost everything but sometimes mess with the other two tunings depending on how much brainspace i have to transpose anything.

I pretty much always use a 5 for metal, but I still use a 4 either in D standard or E standard for everything else rock or jazz or blues.

 

[HelpImaRock]

This will probably be buried in this thread, however, I’ll post anyway. Maybe I’ll get some useful help?

I’m a fairly inexperienced bass player. I am not in a band. I like a lot of heavy music and my roots are early to mid-80’s punk and metal.

I don’t want to tune my bass different every time I want to learn a new song.

I want to actually learn and know where the notes are on the instrument.

I feel like different tunings will not help me actually learn the instrument.

As I dig up tabs for songs I like I keep running into different drop tunings starting with Sabbath all the way to the Dead Kennedys. Kinda frustrated. Would love to learn Tool tunes. Don’t really want to drop the tuning and just learn patterns that have no deeper meaning to my learning as a musician.

Any advice or thoughts?

I realize this is a bit of a rant. It isn’t a criticism of musicians being creative and doing what they want. Not at all. I just don’t know how to navigate it as a novice that wants to build a repertoire.

Thanks to anyone that has some input for me.

I offer a different point of view, having taught guitar and some bass for 14 years. Tuning is an ear training skill. Back in the day, you'd learn songs by listening to them 900 times and slowly figuring them out. Transcriptions were only found in magazines and quickly printed songbooks. So if Black Sabbath, AC/DC, or Van Halen were supposed to be in A=440 on the recording, but they really weren't, you just adjusted to it.

I encourage you to learn the songs you want to learn. If that means tuning to Db to learn "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", that's what you do. It'll not only teach you how to tune, but also how to navigate the fretboard when all the reference notes change. Those are important lessons. Yes, you can get around on the instrument by learning scales, patterns, and music theory (those are important too). But it's all driven by repertoire.

All that said, for my own original music, the lowest I go is Dropped D. I'll use all kinds of tunings on guitar, but that's just not how I roll on bass.

If I were in your situation, I would buy a 5 string or play in BEAD.

 

[viking power]

I offer a different point of view, having taught guitar and some bass for 14 years. Tuning is an ear training skill. Back in the day, you'd learn songs by listening to them 900 times and slowly figuring them out. Transcriptions were only found in magazines and quickly printed songbooks. So if Black Sabbath, AC/DC, or Van Halen were supposed to be in A=440 on the recording, but they really weren't, you just adjusted to it.

I encourage you to learn the songs you want to learn. If that means tuning to Db to learn "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", that's what you do. It'll not only teach you how to tune, but also how to navigate the fretboard when all the reference notes change. Those are important lessons. Yes, you can get around on the instrument by learning scales, patterns, and music theory (those are important too). But it's all driven by repertoire.

All that said, for my own original music, the lowest I go is Dropped D. I'll use all kinds of tunings on guitar, but that's just not how I roll on bass.

If I were in your situation, I would buy a 5 string or play in BEAD.

Appreciate all the advice. I think going to a 5 string is out. Just bought a brand new 4 string!

 

[HelpImaRock]

Appreciate all the advice. I think going to a 5 string is out. Just bought a brand new 4 string!

No matter what your approach, buy a good tuner pedal. You're gonna need it.

 

[viking power]

No matter what your approach, buy a good tuner pedal. You're gonna need it.

Noted! Thanks!