Get Off My Lawn: Downtuning

[Michael Stanley 2112]

What's your get off my lawn thing?

This is almost comical, but I promise I'm not being a wisenheimmer.

My "Get off my lawn" thing is guitar players who have such a major issue with tuning down (just a half-step). It's how I learned to sing and it is unfair to ask someone who's been singing "Ain't talkin' 'Bout Love" in Ab for forty years to sing it in A. The song was written in Ab and recorded in Ab and ...

That's just an example. A lot of the music I love was done in all kinds of tunings (but mostly ½ step down).

I blame 2 things:

1) Locking tremolo systems - I know it is near impossible to tune a guitar equipped with a locking nut in the middle of a set. I get that, but it also impossible for me to tune my throat. I have a good ear and I learned most songs in the key in which they were recorded.

B) Guitarists' egos - God forbid you should ask some of these clowns to vary from their routine! We had a guy come to audition with a guitar with a locking trem system. Forget the fact he kept making (minor) "reverting to original position" mistakes on songs like "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love" and "Talk Dirty To Me" and ...

He expected to "make up for" the differences between standard tuning and "Lump" (Drop D tuning).

I offered him one of my (three) spare guitars I keep at the rehearsal site.

"Nah. That's alright. I'm good."

I asked: "How are you going to play 'Lump' without tuning down (I have a guitar which is in constant Drop D tuning)?"

"Oh, I can handle it."

I figured: "Some people are good at mentally changing signatures/positions on the fly. "Okay", I said.

and he proceeds to play it ALL WRONG.

All he needed to do was pick up a guitar which was willingly provided.

 

[Slevage]

Music is like art. We all use a similar paint brush, but no one artist style or painting is the same. There are intangible aspects such as the feel and soul of the music that is unique to each of us, and the tangible things such as tunings, pickups, effects, and techniques that all help us to create our various masterpieces. Drop tuning or not, I think we can all appreciate the different aspects of each person’s individual styles no matter the simplicity or complexity of the music. The only rule in music is that there are no rules.

My response about TAB is more about music as a universal language, not rules.
There are no disadvantages to learning to read standard notation.

 

[RVRSCO]

My response about TAB is more about music as a universal language, not rules.
There are no disadvantages to learning to read standard notation.

Agreed. Though this was just my response to the OP. We all use different tools and techniques and drop tuning can be one of those tools.

 

[Dincrest]

I think it's largely my fault. I tend to be long-winded. As a result, lots of people don't read my entire posts. It can lead to misunderstanding. I think some may have missed the sarcasm.

As someone who is also verbose when it comes to the written word (I write more eloquently and intelligently than I speak), this meme hits:

I guess the notion of "darn young'uns these days have the attention span of a gnat" could be a "get off my lawn" thing for many of us.

 

[ole Jason]

the theory I’ve heard is basically the volume of life increased as the industrial revolution barreled on, in bigger and bigger cities with more and more machinery, etc. and more people had more money and could afford to go see the orchestra so halls got bigger and bigger. To compensate and remain exciting the orchestra needed more volume, you couldn’t turn the volume knob up, so you could hire more string players (expensive), or by increasing the tension of the strings (raising the A a little) you could squeeze a few more dB out it.

Yep that seems to be the consensus among musicologists right now. As far as the three string bass is concerned, it's hard to say that's really where things started since the gamba family kind of blurs the line. Either way, it's dumb to put artificial limits on how an instrument is used because of preconceived notions of what it was 'designed' for haha

 

[Anders Barfod]

I'm fortunate enough to have a gen-u-ine Mexican Grocery with a griddle five minutes from my office. Can't beat their Tortas (bread is key).

There's a Hipshot D-tuner on my main player (no fives), and some of my favorite songs use that key - Jr's "Country Boy Can Survive", LZ's "Moby Dick", etc. I'm a fan.

30" scale is new to me, but I hope to have one soon. I played with the tension calculator today, and ordered 0.130 for D0 & 0.085 for A0.

I tune all of my stuff to A-444 Hz. Search on "528C" to understand why....

Cheers,

The 444hz (528Hz) love frequency is BS. Don Potter Who talked about A432hz pitch said something very profound which i also recognize.. If the worship band is playing in A440 in Church when the band stops playing the audience will after a while drop in pitch down Close to 432hz tuning

 

[scottfeldstein]

The 444hz (528Hz) love frequency is BS. Don Potter Who talked about A432hz pitch said something very profound which i also recognize.. If the worship band is playing in A440 in Church when the band stops playing the audience will after a while drop in pitch down Close to 432hz tuning

I don't know what you mean, but I would like to. Can you say more?

 

[BassFalcon]

Yep that seems to be the consensus among musicologists right now. As far as the three string bass is concerned, it's hard to say that's really where things started since the gamba family kind of blurs the line. Either way, it's dumb to put artificial limits on how an instrument is used because of preconceived notions of what it was 'designed' for haha

All I know is that tied-on gut frets are where the real tone is, lol.

 

[Anders Barfod]

I don't know what you mean, but I would like to. Can you say more?

He said that when people kept on singing acapella after the band had stopped playing and don Potter noticed that after a while the untrained singers would be flat to A440Hz to a degree that matched up with A4=432hz. My own voice is the same.. in the Middle part of my voice.. G#3 to D#.. the notes in 440hz tuning seem sharp in relation to the natural resonance of my voice. If try A4=434Hz it feels much more natural and Nice..

 

[WRM]

He said that when people kept on singing acapella after the band had stopped playing and don Potter noticed that after a while the untrained singers would be flat to A440Hz to a degree that matched up with A4=432hz. My own voice is the same.. in the Middle part of my voice.. G#3 to D#.. the notes in 440hz tuning seem sharp in relation to the natural resonance of my voice. If try A4=434Hz it feels much more natural and Nice..

Appreciate your thoughts! I do like the sharper 444, but maybe I need to try 434/432, too.

 

[Paul New]

Well I'll throw on my flame suit and play. Most Jazz instrumental music. I love virtuosity, artists from Ella Fitzgerald to Yngwie Malmsteen. It's probably not Jazz itself, just something I can't put my finger on that's more prevalent there? Jaco is unlistenable to me it's so boring. Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" is loved by so many players that I like and respect, but I find it utterly boring. I hate to even admit it. I want to be the type of person that thinks "Kind of Blue" is a masterpiece. I know it's weird to think this kind of jazz seems pretentious, but then be OK with Yngwie

It's OK, you are trying, and I'm not joking. Believe it or not, many people of my generation, and I'm 70, who like jazz had to learn to like jazz. It's not the music we grew up with. I knew that it must be good because of all the intelligent people I knew a little older than me who loved it. So I kept listening and eventually it started making sense. I think that appreciation for music is partly innate, and partly learned.

I suggest, and hope I don't come off as arrogant, that you come back to it occassionally. First time I heard Jaco play, I thought he sounded incredibly competent, but the music didn't fire any synapses. Now I can't get enough Jaco, and understand his brilliance.

 

[Hoyt]

People who insist I play a 5 string bass.

Every cool Motown, Stax, etc. bass line was played using the entire range of a 4 string. 70’s prog rock bassists continued and expanded on this. Now all of the sudden we’re supposed to be relegated to the lowest of low notes?

Fahgeddabowdit.

 

[WRM]

@Anders Barfod
Hoping that you (or anyone else) can help me with two questions?...

I just recorded Att. with my Zoom H6 (no tuner). The lowest note that I can reliably hit is IN CAPS in the "F-Troop" anthem:

"THE end of the civil war was near WHEN quite accidenTALly, A hero who sneezed abruptly seized REtreat AND reversed IT to victory, etc."...

1) What's the "bottom" of my vocal range?, and
2) What's my "Natural Frequency" - the equivalent "A4 Freq" in my head?...

Fun stuff, and thanks,

 

[MoireBass]

You should see it. They hammer this pork and fry if and it’s way bigger than the bun. How do they get it bigger than the bun? And a pickle.
View attachment 4711408

Chicken-fried ham!

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

@Anders Barfod
Hoping that you (or anyone else) can help me with two questions?...

I just recorded Att. with my Zoom H6 (no tuner). The lowest note that I can reliably hit is IN CAPS in the "F-Troop" anthem:

"THE end of the civil war was near WHEN quite accidenTALly, A hero who sneezed abruptly seized REtreat AND reversed IT to victory, etc."...

1) What's the "bottom" of my vocal range?, and
2) What's my "Natural Frequency" - the equivalent "A4 Freq" in my head?...

Fun stuff, and thanks,

The last syllable of "victory" was a little amiss, also, but more importantly. I think you're attempting the wrong key to begin with.

I'm off to Youtube to check.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Yeah. You're too low in the sample.

I don't have perfect pitch, but I have relative pitch. Try going up a step to a step and a half.

 

[The Bass Clef]

I don't care for the bass tone on Journey's Don't stop Believin'.

That said, 4 of my basses are tuned a half step down to Eb. I'll go drop C# for a couple songs. Still within the range of a 5er, but I play 4's.

Same here, except all my basses are always going back and forth in tunings because one of my bands is regular and the other band tunes down a half step. And we also do drop C# for a handful of songs in the down tuned band. I used to keep half of my basses tuned for each band, but since I like to choose my weapon the day of the gig, I just tune them all for whatever I need at the time and the basses don’t care.

I also dislike the bass tone on Don’t stop Believin’. Honestly, I just dislike Journey (no offense to whoever, it’s that whole genre of late ‘70s/early 80s “diet rock” I call it). I do find myself tolerating it more as I get older though… not actually liking it, but tolerating.

OP, we down tune because the singer is a baritone/bass (think Johnny Cash meets Jim Morrison) and we just found it sounds better because it’s easier for him to sing songs that weren’t originally sung by deeper voiced males. We also transpose a lot. Down tuning isn’t exactly modern, bands have been doing it on the regular since classic rock wasn’t classic yet.

 

[definenredefine]

Same here, except all my basses are always going back and forth in tunings because one of my bands is regular and the other band tunes down a half step. And we also do drop C# for a handful of songs in the down tuned band. I used to keep half of my basses tuned for each band, but since I like to choose my weapon the day of the gig, I just tune them all for whatever I need at the time and the basses don’t care.

I also dislike the bass tone on Don’t stop Believin’. Honestly, I just dislike Journey (no offense to whoever, it’s that whole genre of late ‘70s/early 80s “diet rock” I call it). I do find myself tolerating it more as I get older though… not actually liking it, but tolerating.

OP, we down tune because the singer is a baritone/bass (think Johnny Cash meets Jim Morrison) and we just found it sounds better because it’s easier for him to sing songs that weren’t originally sung by deeper voiced males. We also transpose a lot. Down tuning isn’t exactly modern, bands have been doing it on the regular since classic rock wasn’t classic yet.

"Diet rock." I like that.

 

[definenredefine]

It's OK, you are trying, and I'm not joking. Believe it or not, many people of my generation, and I'm 70, who like jazz had to learn to like jazz. It's not the music we grew up with. I knew that it must be good because of all the intelligent people I knew a little older than me who loved it. So I kept listening and eventually it started making sense. I think that appreciation for music is partly innate, and partly learned.

I suggest, and hope I don't come off as arrogant, that you come back to it occassionally. First time I heard Jaco play, I thought he sounded incredibly competent, but the music didn't fire any synapses. Now I can't get enough Jaco, and understand his brilliance.

I'd build on that suggestion a little -

Kind of Blue is not my favorite. I like jazz but I'm not a huge fan of Miles Davis. Part of that is he was a trumpeter and I prefer sax; part of it is because I like faster, riffier jazz. Think Charles Mingus, Dave Brubeck or John Coltrane. I'd suggest that if/when you revisit jazz, you try some different artists.

 

[WRM]

Sittin' here w/my C harmonica, I think the lowest note I can hit is a "G". I'll take it!...