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Get Off My Lawn: Downtuning
- Thread starter scottfeldstein
- Start date
I refuse to be in a band that down tunes. I played in one and I didn't downtime, just played in Eb on many of the E songs. Not a problem. To me, it's a sign of players who can't play their instruments as they should be played. None of the reasons for it are valid to me. Just my opinion.
I guess I really don't have an issue with people who want to tune their guitars to something other than E Standard.
Downtuning a bass doesn't make sense to me -- if you've got a standard four-string bass tuned to standard, your bottom string is at 41Hz and honestly, most sound gear doesn't do well much below that. And yes, I've got a five-string as well.
As for locking trems; I have two Line 6 Variax JTV-89Fs. Floyd Rose with Graphtech Ghost piezo saddles feeding the Variax firmware. That Variax stuff allows you to tune individual strings to virtually anything up to an octave down without changing the tension on the strings. And you can change to a different tuning by rotating a switch or with a single stomp on a Helix or HD500X, literally between notes.
I really didn't get those guitars originally (I have two earlier models including the Acoustic 700, the same guitar Edge uses on stage with U2) to play downtuned metal. You can also mute a string altogether, so if you want the guitar tuned to Open G using only five strings (ala Keef), you can do that. I've taken the Acoustic 700 (which looks like a slimline acoustic) to a P&W session; you can tune the bottom two strings down an octave, leaving the top four in standard, and play both bass lines and standard chording. Fun to see the guitar players in the audience looking around for a bass player in a group with nothing but acoustic (looking) instruments.
The original intent was to avoid transposing on the fly when a singer appeared complaining that he couldn't hit the high notes on the song on which I'd spent a lot of time learning accurate solos. You know, the kind that audiences know so well that they sing along with them. "Can we do this a couple of steps down?" "Sure thing!" and I just twist the knob and play it exactly as before. What comes out of the amp is bang on. And I don't have to have a rack of guitars tuned else wise, and I can use a Floyd Rose with normal tension. Made sense to me.
There's a bass version of this, by the way. Hard to find and in demand and they sell for significantly more than when new. Four and five-string versions. No longer produced.
On #1. Yup
On #2. There is a bit more $$ made if your good, that’s nice
On#3. I guess if you play bass for Metallica or that “Iron group” from the UK it’s ok. I’m not gonna question them on it
On #2. There is a bit more $$ made if your good, that’s nice
On#3. I guess if you play bass for Metallica or that “Iron group” from the UK it’s ok. I’m not gonna question them on it
I know Houston is in TX. But I'm confused, is it east or west of Tyler?
I know it isn't really Mexican food, but my favorite pizza is a white with home grown garlic, tomatillos and jalapeños.
It was explained to me by Messkins that Messkin food is whatever Messkins eat. "Authentic" Mexican food is entirely dependent on whomsoever's house (complete with a Mexican mother who cooks) you happen to be standing in.
Houston is half in TX and half in the Gulf of Mexico and moving closer to the Gulf with each hurricane. In a thousand years they'll discover it again (underwater) and wonder what happened.
A440<A420
OH YEAH! I go no beef at all with any kind of alternate up down whatever tuning. But for crying out loud, A = 440. There is so mush BS out there on this topic that I will stop right here.
Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
- 12,122
- 16,793
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- have been on nationally released albums, charting on the Billboard 200
So, at least 3 of the acts I work with tune their guitars down a half step. Kinda like Van Halen, Guns N Roses, Stevie Ray Vaughan, etc. Some covers, some originals. Playing a 5 string bass in these situations while possible, it’s absolutely impractical . Besides, some of the riffs herein utilize open strings. So I simply keep a couple basses (4 string) tuned down a half step.
In my rock group we cover many songs in Eb...me and the guitar player would transpose or lower the key but...last year or so we just started playing them in standard and didn't tell our singer. He nails it and has no clue. Not easy singers either, I'm talking Dio, guns and roses etc... we have been waiting over a year for him to notice.
Yep ...
Some open-string riffs are stupid-difficult to fret ...
My fave pet peeve on this topic are gitfiddle players who call up saying that they want to do, say "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love", in A ...
Fine ...
Until you show up & they're playing their half-step down guitar in "the A position", but it's actually just like Eddie's version ...
Ab ...
We can deal, but it colors every other "transcription" - you know that the mix & match code is in play ...
Ha, reminds me of a singer in town that always wants to do What's Going On ( Marvin ) in F.
I've always told anyone on stage with us to play it in E.
He's never noticed.
First time we rehearsed "heaven and Hell" by Dio (in standard) he sounded like he was struggling so I asked, "is this too high for you"...his ego got the best of him and and he said "I eat this S$%t for breakfast" then nailed it 2nd time through.....we never told him
. One of our crowd favorites.My plan to design a 30Hz capable bass cab didn’t fly with many people who insist it’s never been done that way and absolutely shouldn’t be. Even inspired a sexist rant on AVS Forum against me.
I’ve got the drivers and alignment figured out. As soon as I can build a cab I’ll get started on it. Need tools and skill upgrade.
I’m using 12” audiophile subwoofers that barely do 30Hz to keep the dispersion omnidirectional at 1KHz crossover and a 120degree horizontal dispersion stackable line array waveguide with a compression driver.
The vertical dispersion on that waveguide is only 15 degrees but since I’m only using this cab for home practice and small dives where there’s no capable PA backup the vertical dispersion shouldn’t matter. The audience and drummer should have their ears at similar vertical height and the rest of the band should be far enough away from the cab that minor height difference won’t matter.
The wide horizontal dispersion is to ensure the band can hear full spectrum sound so they won’t complain about intelligibility issues. It should also ensure that my sound translates from the stage to the audience when there’s no PA reinforcement.
I picked audiophile subwoofer drivers that barely do 30Hz at -0.5dB in ported alignment because it’s the only type of driver I could find with good efficiency from a budget manufacturer (Dayton) at $250 each. Two of them will do 118dB at one meter with 800W at maximum power rating and shouldn’t need a high pass in the bass bandwidth to protect against overexcursion.
The woofers are rated at 400W each 4ohms and the compression tweeter is rated at 100W 16ohms so if I use an amp rated for 800W 2 ohms I should be able to also use a passive crossover. With graphic EQ and such wide dispersion drivers the Zobel shouldn't be important and a simple second order Butterworth with an L pad on the tweeter should be fine, especially if I use a graphic EQ (that’s the plan, 31 band). The cab should do 30Hz-10KHz no problem and maybe as high as 15KHz with EQ although the waveguide attenuates above 10KHz.
it’s amazing how much pushback this plan engendered. It’s basically an extended bandwidth bass cab like the Acme low B except without the -6dB loss at 30Hz.
I guess I’ll find out if I’m right in a couple of years when I’m ready to build the thing.
Have you ever checked out greenboy's "fEARful" cabs? iirc, he designed them to reach F#0 (23.12Hz)...
I don't know why you'd get push-back on the idea... fEARfuls have been around for at least 12 years.
Anyway, good luck!
I refuse to grow up, so this isn't an issue. Also, we don't have a lawn, we have a yard. An acre of it. Last night we had a huge van parked in the middle of the front yard, while 7 high school students and two college grads stayed at the house. Waaay more fun than shouting at kids because they're playing with the latest thing. My parents didn't get Hendri, either. But, God love 'em, they tried!
Looked into it and no, the eminence driver in the fEARful 12” is another pro driver with resonant frequency nearer 50Hz than 25Hz.
I simulated that driver in ported Butterfield alignment with WinISD and it is down 6dB at 40Hz already plus by 30Hz it is needing a high pass to protect against over-excursion at -12dB that far below 45Hz port tune.
It’s not even as capable as the Acme low B 2x10 that is also down 6dB at 30Hz with a custom Eminence driver.
I found one el cheapo pro 12” driver at Parts Express that can replicate the Acme Low B 2x10 low frequency resonance except for the excursion. It will bottom out below 45Hz at rated power and I’m not even sure what it’s original design intent was because it’s x-max is so limited that it’s excursion limited even at optimal port tune or in sealed alignment.
No biggie. I know what to do. Just need to get motivated.
I would BEAD my short scale basses tomorrow if LaBella made LTFs for it. They don't, so I got a bass synth setup instead.
