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Double Bass getting a good arco tone through a pickup (full circle)

Sam Dingle

Sam Dingle

Aug 16, 2011
6,786
5,561
Nashville TN
#1
I'm wondering how people get a good arco tone while using a pickup. I play a full circle pickup and spirocore strings (i know i know not good for arco) but when I play pizz through an amp I can get it to sound like 99% of my acoustic pizz sound, but the arco is SUPER scratchy and I can't get it to work. Pizz is fine its the arco thats an issue. Any advice?

I ask because I want to be able to have a decent tone when doing pit shows/musicals that go between pizz and arco (and electric but thats another issue).
 
#3
I use a FC as well, and for any amped gigs requiring extensive arco, I bring an EQ pedal. If it's a passage here or there, I can get by with with changing my technique. If the music requires some shifting between pizz and arco, I bring an EQ pedal to even things out. Even just backing off the input gain on an amp from where you would typically set it for pizz can be a huge help for amplified arco tone. I start with the EQ pedal as sort of a "volume kill" and then cut specific frequencies, if needed.
 
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#4
I did some 350 shows on my Hachez back in the day. My solution ended up being the gage pickup (under foot one) and going through a trace elliot amp. Forget the model, it was a 2x10 combo. The trace was so coloured that is sort of ended up sounding like it should if that makes any sense.
I know it is not your common acoustic amp, but it ended up working well for me.
As for spirocore, they can sound quite dark and round on the right bass. I regularly play with a friend that has spiros on his Grancino and it is darker than my Hill with passiones. Same goes for my 1947 Italian which still sounds pretty dark with AE spiro.
 
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#5
For purely arco I prefer the Realist, but for both the Full Circle works best for me (the bow stuff I do doesn't need to blend in the way I suspect you need it to). Could you put another pickup on there and switch back and forth via a Felix or something?
 
#7
Sam Dingle said:
I'm wondering how people get a good arco tone while using a pickup. I play a full circle pickup and spirocore strings (i know i know not good for arco) but when I play pizz through an amp I can get it to sound like 99% of my acoustic pizz sound, but the arco is SUPER scratchy and I can't get it to work. Pizz is fine its the arco thats an issue. Any advice?

I ask because I want to be able to have a decent tone when doing pit shows/musicals that go between pizz and arco (and electric but thats another issue).
Click to expand...

Bskts, I see from your info page you have a Genz Benz Shuttle (I used to have a 3.0 8t and now have a 6.2 head).

IF you are willing to consider a different amp, I would recommend checking out the Genzler/Gollihur Acoustic Array Pro (the Golliur Series has the Bass woofer replacing the 'guitar speaker'.

There are several reasons for this.

1. Based on my experience since getting one - even set FLAT this amp sounds more like my bass than anything else I have played through.

2. It has two channels so you could set the EQ on channel 1 for Pizz and the EQ on Channel 2 for Arco. A simple A/B foot switch will allow a quick hands-free change between the two.

3. The amp has 'sweepable mids' which can be very useful for getting rid of those problem 'scratchy' frequencies.

4. It is very similar to the GB Shuttles (similar DNA) so if you like your Shuttle this will be a simple transition.

5. If you are running FOH this amp also has 3 separate DI's, Combined Channel 1 and 2 POST EQ, and separate DIs for Channel one and Channel 2 pre-EQ. Lot's of flexibility.

6. I almost forgot, the amp also has a 5 Megohm input impedence.

If you get a a switch like a Morley Quad Box you could also switch pickups as well as switching channels, but that may be more than you need or want to mess with.
 
#8
I think the strings are definitely a factor. Consider this blurb about Spirocores from Gollihur Music:

While they are certainly used by many fine arco players, they have a reputation for a scratchy sort of response under the bow -- and their stiffness requires an attention to proper technique. So if you bow a lot, and not strictly acoustically (scratchiness is particularly obvious when amplified), consider that reputation.

I also use a Full Circle and I think my bass is similar to yours. As you know I recently switched from synthetic-core strings to Spirocores and all other factors being the same, I noticed a difference in the amplified arco tone, and not for the better.

Assuming you plan to stick with the Spiros then all of the advice given here is solid, although purchasing a $1,100 combo may not be the best option to start with cost-wise.

- Steve
 
#9
bassfiddlesteve said:
I think the strings are definitely a factor. Consider this blurb about Spirocores from Gollihur Music:

While they are certainly used by many fine arco players, they have a reputation for a scratchy sort of response under the bow -- and their stiffness requires an attention to proper technique. So if you bow a lot, and not strictly acoustically (scratchiness is particularly obvious when amplified), consider that reputation.

I also use a Full Circle and I think my bass is similar to yours. As you know I recently switched from synthetic-core strings to Spirocores and all other factors being the same, I noticed a difference in the amplified arco tone, and not for the better.

Assuming you plan to stick with the Spiros then all of the advice given here is solid, although purchasing a $1,100 combo may not be the best option to start with cost-wise.

- Steve
Click to expand...

Certainly NOT the most cost-wise. Unless you are totally committed to the Spirocores I would suggest you give Evah Pirazzi Weichs a try. I was a life-long Spiro users but switched last year and 'I ain't goin back'.

And just for kicks, heres a little video I made showing the Genzler/Gollihur Acoustic Array with channel 1 set for Pizz and Channel 2 set for arco. I use a Morley Quad Box to switch between the two- there are plenty of other A/B boxes that would work.

 
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#14
Might want to experiment with the orientation of your Full Circle - that can have a pretty big impact on response and costs nothing to tinker with. Will mess with the pizz sound, though. (I'll change it mid-song sometimes when I'm restless. The other night I tried the cord straight up then straight sideways then settled back in between the two.)
Thomastik Belcanto strings also help - they seem better balanced (though I am thinking about returning to the growlier Spirocores next time around...)
On the amp end, I've come to favor an all-tube head that seems to compress things in a very musical way.
I've thought about volume pedals and/or preamps with some sort of foot switch boost but it hasn't really been necessary with my current setup.
 
#15
I play spiro mittels and have a Lifeline not a Full Circle and I play only minimal arco most of the time, but I find running a bit of compression before everything at the front of my signal chain helps with the scratchy coming through the amp. An EQ would be helpful, but I seem to be able to make it mostly pleasant sounding (my poor arco ability notwithstanding) with a bit of comp and attention to technique. I also have a volume pedal just in case.
 
#16
If you're planning to stick with the Full Circle as your pickup, then I would strongly recommend an Audiosprockets Tonedexter. I run a Yamahiko pickup (same design as full circle) with Spiro Weichs, and the Tonedexter does wonders for my arco tone (pizz tone too, but the arco has the most prominent improvement). Check out the talkbass thread on the Tonedexter, and there are some cool youtube demos of violinists running a piezo pickup with the tonedexter that demonstrate the vast improvement in arco tone.
 
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#19
I've lucked out, my Full Circle works pretty well for arco. I've got Obligato's on G and D, and Evah Mittel's on A and E. When the Obli's wear out, I will probably go to Evah's from top to bottom.

I play a lot of arco -- at least half of my practicing, and most of my jazz soloing. I gave Spiro's a fair chance, but they were also hurting my hands when I played pizz. I don't need to prove that I can tame Spiro's under the bow. There are plenty of other things that I can work on improving.
 
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