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Getting big fat thud tones in big resonant rooms
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
Unfortunately for me I've had to round out a generic tone that sort of fits most rooms with little tweaking.
My rig stays in the band trailer because I'm riding with someone else a lot, resulting in my waiting til the trailer gets there, and everything set up before working on my sound.
For most gigs I keep my bass and treble in the middle, and pushed up just a bit on the mids.
I have just a brief few minutes before the drummer and guitar player start messing with their stuff, after which we go right into soundcheck.
In that brief time I sweep and cut any trouble frequencies with the paraeq.
I've tried it other ways but for getting the best sound I can without spending more time on it, it works.
It's not ideal but its the best I can do
My rig stays in the band trailer because I'm riding with someone else a lot, resulting in my waiting til the trailer gets there, and everything set up before working on my sound.
For most gigs I keep my bass and treble in the middle, and pushed up just a bit on the mids.
I have just a brief few minutes before the drummer and guitar player start messing with their stuff, after which we go right into soundcheck.
In that brief time I sweep and cut any trouble frequencies with the paraeq.
I've tried it other ways but for getting the best sound I can without spending more time on it, it works.
It's not ideal but its the best I can do
I've had it happen too, and I resisted it first too, but it turned out they were right. The bass they made me play wasn't as dilapidated as yours but it wasn't fun to play. But it did sound great and I still sounded like me.
On another note, I've been trying to remember the name of the band Soundtrack Of Our Lives for years. I saw them on Conan O'Brien, loved them, bought their album and loved it, and then I lost it and couldn't remember their name. So now I'm on it!
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I completely agree and I've gone off about it before, especially when I was trying to do gigs with only a mic. But too many soundtracks argued with me and it became a distraction, so I just concluded that it was a DI world for bassists, and made my direct signal as close to an amp sound as I possibly could. Fortunately the basic sound I like is very tweakable for sound techs, and I've yet to get a complaint.Hi Jimmy
It is easier to send a flat pre signal to the board and to blame the sound guy when the result is bad!
I' ve seen that go wrong so many times. And it was rarely the sound guy 's fault!
Two guitarist 's with their bedroom sounds + a keyborder who
uses the fattest sounds he has with a heavy left hand… and of course the drums aren' t tuned!
Add a flat D.I. bass signal and wait for the miracle to happen…
I think I posted this before, but I am too lazy to search.
Nobody ever asked a guitarist to plug his guitar into a D.I. box and to give a flat and dry signal to the board
and just let the sound tech do the job.
Nobody ever asked a keyboarder to use only one sound for the full gig.
Why not? That' s obvious. Because it is wrong! Guitarists and keyboarders are responsible for their sounds.
So are we (bassists)! IMO
Why should we delegate our responsibilities to the sound tech? Let them do our job?
Let them play producers?
No way!
greetings
Wise
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
- 16,223
- 7,614
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- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
Jimmy—I saw Steve Boone with the Spoonful in Providence, RI—twice I think, probably in '66 or '67. I was a dedicated Spoonful fan, and we played several of their songs, along with a lot of Holy Modal Rounders covers, lol.
Steve played through Standel's in Providence, which in fact the whole band was using. Yablonsky's guild guitar just friggin chimed! Rhode Island Music, a store in Pawtucket carried those amps as well as Guild basses. I didn't end up with a Standel, picked a Dual Showman with D140F's instead, but I did buy and play a sunburst Starfire.
Both Steve Boone and Chris Hillman were idols of mine at the time. I still miss folkrock, and am glad I have one of those Starfire Hillman reissues. Maybe they should do a Steven Boone model? Two pickups, IIRC.
Steve played through Standel's in Providence, which in fact the whole band was using. Yablonsky's guild guitar just friggin chimed! Rhode Island Music, a store in Pawtucket carried those amps as well as Guild basses. I didn't end up with a Standel, picked a Dual Showman with D140F's instead, but I did buy and play a sunburst Starfire.
Both Steve Boone and Chris Hillman were idols of mine at the time. I still miss folkrock, and am glad I have one of those Starfire Hillman reissues. Maybe they should do a Steven Boone model? Two pickups, IIRC.
Wow, you were so lucky to see them back then! I feel very lucky I've gotten to see them now, though. John Sebastian is long gone and has no interest in playing the old songs anymore, but Joe Butler does an awesome job stepping from behind the drums to front the band. They are great guys, and the new musicians they work with have the spirit, too.
That's great to hear. They're somewhat of a national treasure in Swedish rock music, along with the likes of The Hellacopters and The Cardigans. All these bands transcend genres and incorporate soul, jazz and R'n'B influences to great effect.
I see Steve hasn't posted yet, but I will relay the brief comment he made about my post...
"I too think tis the fingers that control the sound, a good amp just amplifies it."
There you go...and that's why he can use a bass that many folks think would be completely unsuited for The Lovin' Spoonful's style of folk rock music (did I mention that they singlehandedly invented the genre that bands like The Eagles adapted?), plug into any decent working amp with the guns to handle the needs of the gig, and sound great and completely in character.
Tone is in the fingers and don't let anyone tell you different!
"I too think tis the fingers that control the sound, a good amp just amplifies it."
There you go...and that's why he can use a bass that many folks think would be completely unsuited for The Lovin' Spoonful's style of folk rock music (did I mention that they singlehandedly invented the genre that bands like The Eagles adapted?), plug into any decent working amp with the guns to handle the needs of the gig, and sound great and completely in character.
Tone is in the fingers and don't let anyone tell you different!
Gotta mention that one of the earliest editions of Rufus Reid's "The Evolving Bassist", which is what I was reading at the time ( yeh, under a candle ) to learn how to play upright bass, had his comments about plucking hand style for electric bass. Kinda like this, in my words:
"If often the best way to pluck an upright bass string is to pull the string, with the side of your finger ( i.e. meat ), and then release it to make the note - then it might be the best way often to play an electric bass string too."
That book has a lot of good advice. Changed my life. But I still suck ( sorry Rufus!
"If often the best way to pluck an upright bass string is to pull the string, with the side of your finger ( i.e. meat ), and then release it to make the note - then it might be the best way often to play an electric bass string too."
That book has a lot of good advice. Changed my life. But I still suck ( sorry Rufus!
Well, thats kind of apples and oranges. No matter what genre (and, until recently with the advent of very accurate modeling), industry-standard guitar tones have always included some type of amp color, speaker color, or speaker breakup, even clean - from country to pop to reggae to whatever......Bass is a different story...as a matter of fact, transparency is probably sought in production purposes on bass for most genres sans amp color. In most cases for recording, bass is D.I.d in studios (usually a tube Pre) with no amp. There are exceptions, of course, especially in rock (Id say almost everyone in rock styles bi-tracks clean and dirty tracks with an amp/cab on the second track). There's also cases of non-rock bassists who color with amp color who are household names and are getting paid to do what they do. Sometimes its by whoever is manning the board ( a session I did awhile back, the engineer's Hx was being a live monitor mix engineer and this was one of his first experiences as a studio engineer, and wanted me to get an amp, but this usually never happens).....I dont know how many readers here have done sessionwork over the decades but usually its expected that you use a D.I. (usually a tube pre) and no amp. Even recording with Bruce Swedein, he never asks for an amp, nor expects it....he plugged me into a Craig Anderton built tube pre D.I. which was the exact same one Louis Johnson used on "Thriller"....do you know how exciting that was for me? Same thing with Nashville, where I had to join the Union for pay: amp never expected. In many places as a hired-gun session guy, if you start rolllng an amp in, the engineer and producer are looking at you funny.
I'm expecting Jimmy to chime in as weve discussed this before, he on the opposite end of having a polarized history and experience from my hx where amps are used, so Im only explaining my history: the point being that, unlike guitar universal/standardized application, bass application is much more diverse....Granted, Im talking studio, but a lot of those engineers do live sound as well and have that approach when doing house
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That's what Stanley Clarke does. With the rise of more and more powerful amplification it becomes less necessary on electric, but even though I cheat sometimes on upright, it does sound better to use the side of your finger and engage more of the string.Gotta mention that one of the earliest editions of Rufus Reid's "The Evolving Bassist", which is what I was reading at the time ( yeh, under a candle ) to learn how to play upright bass, had his comments about plucking hand style for electric bass. Kinda like this, in my words:
"If often the best way to pluck an upright bass string is to pull the string, with the side of your finger ( i.e. meat ), and then release it to make the note - then it might be the best way often to play an electric bass string too."
That book has a lot of good advice. Changed my life. But I still suck ( sorry Rufus!
I think the reason that some producers ask for a flat signal from us is so that they have leeway to take it in whatever direction they need when the rest of the instruments are cut. And I totally get the need that live sound techs have for similar leeway. Bass can be somewhat tricky to mix, especially in a reverberant room. But it ain't brain surgery, I know what I want and how to get it, and I try to never do anything to screw the band or the sound tech. Once in a while I might have a pedal too loud, but never within speaker popping range.
Youre an experienced player with a long history. You know the nuances of your Ampegs and your basses and how they respond to your touch. That goes a long way in sending a colored signal to the house. Mr Boone is probably the same way. A lot of folks dont know or are still learning themselves and their gear and havent fully incorporated that yet... ....I went all Zen on that, didnt I?
The airplane pictures in that book were hilarious... With him standing in that tiny Fokker plane with his bass upside-down against the bulkhead (I think the headstock was on a little pillow) belted in, and that gigantic 'fro.
Oh the memories!
Oh the memories!
Gotta mention that one of the earliest editions of Rufus Reid's "The Evolving Bassist", which is what I was reading at the time ( yeh, under a candle ) to learn how to play upright bass, had his comments about plucking hand style for electric bass. Kinda like this, in my words:
"If often the best way to pluck an upright bass string is to pull the string, with the side of your finger ( i.e. meat ), and then release it to make the note - then it might be the best way often to play an electric bass string too."
That book has a lot of good advice. Changed my life. But I still suck ( sorry Rufus!
Actually I thought that weird plucking position he uses with electric bass had more to do with evening out the length of his fingers to create a more even sound between them. A few others out there did that, too.
That could very well be, but I always thought it was because he started out on upright and playing that way was easier for him. Could be wrong though, no doubt about it.
It's funny though...Stanley is worshipped as one of the tops in his field and a pioneer of electric Bass, but these days he says that he wishes he'd have played with a straight hand more like his buddies Victor Wooten and Marcus Miller. I don't know what he's worried about though ... not like it slowed him down from becoming a legend.
