Getting good bass tone in a cavernous room

[TimmyP]

Quite often it's not necessary to dump all the lows, just the one or two frequencies that are going nuts. This requires one or two parametric EQ bands - something that few bass amps have.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

A keyboardist and I play jazz in the huge food court of a grocery store--sprawling room with very high ceiling. We're right outside a pub (also part of the store), and our music is intended for the diners in the pub as well as the patrons of the food court and the shoppers walking by. Because we're very close to the podium where pub guests are greeted, we need to keep our volume down.

Sometimes it's okay, but last night I thought my fretless bass sound (active Yamaha BB3000af through a 300w Promethean combo with 10" speaker) was horrible--diffused all over the place, with no "center." No one else, including the keyboardist, complained, but it drove me nuts. No matter what I did with EQ, I couldn't get a focused sound.

Is there a cure for low-volume, large-room situations? Is there a device or pedal that can help shape bass tone, like a DI or a compressor or something? Could an amp with more headroom add focus without adding volume? Would an extension speaker help? To play fretted rather than fretless? It's a tough acoustics situation, but I'll bet many of you have found a way to cope with similar situations.

Thanks very much for your ideas.

a couple ideas beyond EQ... the first thing I do in a tough room is try different pickup blends. Sometimes the neck wins out even when your think the bite of the bridge would do the trick, no way to k ow other than experimenting. A chorus pedal is great for thinning out and focusing your tone. Sure it's not a modern sound, but it's so out of fashion that it's fashionable if you ask me. Overdrive is also a great way to add focus to your sound. a little touch of one or both of those would tighten things up.

 

[Emanuel Apascaritei]

In reverberant rooms, best way is to go really small speakers. Forget about 10" and 12". Think more about 5" or even lower. And yes a 5" can go low and do bass really good or even better imho.

 

[InhumanResource]

Im a flat as possible player.....with this in mind, i find that Two relative frequencies, 125 hz and - especially - 250hz, i find it important to roll back, sometimes as much as - 6 db or more, and let the natural acoustics of those high ceiling cavernous 'bass traps' to carry those

See, that's funny. I usually give a bump at 120 and roll back the "bass" a little, possibly with an HPF if the room is boomy.

 

[rodl2005]

In reverberant rooms, best way is to go really small speakers. Forget about 10" and 12". Think more about 5" or even lower. And yes a 5" can go low and do bass really good or even better imho.

Each to their own of course, but. ...I go the opposite direction.
If that sorta room/cavern etc. . I've found a damn good amount of power and my tight tuned Fender Bassman Pro Neo 115 cab. Run from my Fender Super Bassman - 300w all tube amp.
And as above stated. ..get out up at yr ears. With my set up listed above. . I don't need to get it up at ear level. ..as I'll eq it and set the vol them forget it.
I KNOW the lows are punchy and not TOO low. .. and every note has heft.
Even in venues like this it sounds unreal.
Not much help for you with your amp etc. .. but that's my method. Unless there's a heap of stairs to load into/out of. .. this is what I use. Even if it's a quiet gig. It sounds thick full and punchy. I could take my 100w V4B tube amp. ..or one of a cuppla micro's I've got. ..and I will if there's poor access to the stage area etc.
But the Super Bassman and one 115 BassmanPro cab. Superb. Never had more compliments tush when I use this.

 

[BobDeRosa]

In reverberant rooms, best way is to go really small speakers. Forget about 10" and 12". Think more about 5" or even lower. And yes a 5" can go low and do bass really good or even better imho.

Aren't 5" speaker cabs fairly rare? The only one I know without Googling is Phil Jones.

 

[Emanuel Apascaritei]

Aren't 5" speaker cabs fairly rare? The only one I know without Googling is Phil Jones.

Well if you look only bass related maybe, but 5" speakers are fairly common. Just try not to close yourself only to bass related items.

I have also have made my own 2x6" 100w combo amp and gives very good results. But when I wanted to go with 5" I have discovered Phil Jones and it was cheaper to buy a C4 cab than make it myself.

 

[Emanuel Apascaritei]

Each to their own of course, but. ...I go the opposite direction.
If that sorta room/cavern etc. . I've found a damn good amount of power and my tight tuned Fender Bassman Pro Neo 115 cab. Run from my Fender Super Bassman - 300w all tube amp.
And as above stated. ..get out up at yr ears. With my set up listed above. . I don't need to get it up at ear level. ..as I'll eq it and set the vol them forget it.
I KNOW the lows are punchy and not TOO low. .. and every note has heft.
Even in venues like this it sounds unreal.
Not much help for you with your amp etc. .. but that's my method. Unless there's a heap of stairs to load into/out of. .. this is what I use. Even if it's a quiet gig. It sounds thick full and punchy. I could take my 100w V4B tube amp. ..or one of a cuppla micro's I've got. ..and I will if there's poor access to the stage area etc.
But the Super Bassman and one 115 BassmanPro cab. Superb. Never had more compliments tush when I use this.

And really glad it works for you. As for me a 15" is out of question, too loose and undefined.

 

[rodl2005]

Fair enough and as I said. ..each to their own etc etc. ..
But the Fender Bassman Pro Neo 115 cabs are pretty tight sounding 15s. More of a sealed cab vibe. Don't write off a speaker cab due to the cone size. ..it's how they're tuned, built, designed etc.
My Fender 15s work well (better than many other "boutique") cabs I've owned, with every amp I've used em with. Fair enough, you may not like em. ..but as I say, don't write off just due to cone size .
I was fully happy with 12s for a good long time. ..but found a deal on these Fender Bassman Pro Neo 115s and they blew me away. Still do.
Only I've been injured by em. .. when others try to help and hit me in the chin, as they just about throw em thru the roof as they're so light.
Opposite to the Ampeg 410HLF I had (which I never really liked the sound of anyway, but it's awkward shape n weight. .....aaaaagh). That injured me just by squashing my thumb under it and various other weight related ways.

 

[Omega Monkey]

Basically you might need to roll off most of the lows below 300-500 or so, depending on the size of the room, the reverb will add back a lot of those frequencies and it will get really out of control if you have them up to high. Use a snappier/brighter tone than you might in a more neutral room. If you usually go more Jamerson, try going more Wooten instead. High frequencies decay really quickly and low frequencies decay slowly (of course depending on the acoustics of the room, but that's a good rule of thumb). So you want to accommodate that, and also you can accommodate with your playing by being less busy, using more rests, more string muting, etc...

 

[Wisebass]

A chorus pedal is great for thinning out and focusing your tone. Sure it's not a modern sound, but it's so out of fashion that it's fashionable if you ask me. Overdrive is also a great way to add focus to your sound. a little touch of one or both of those would tighten things up.

pretty cool idea!!! I did not try the "chorus thing" yet

for gigs of that size I show up with my full rig = two cabs + head (lf looks could kill )

The trick is that the cab on the floor isn't plugged in
gain is up to the "break in point" (just a hint of overdrive on a frettles can sound really great )
low freqs more ore less scooped and a piece of foam close to the bridge to complete the trouble shooting stuff

may the bass be with you

Wise(b)ass