Gigging thoughts after 30 years playing live

[Jeff Hughes]

There is an interesting relationship between all of the musical products that are advertised to us versus the products that you barely know exist but would not gig without.

 

[Timmy-Watts]

So I’ll also say in a way this band is old school in that we all still use amps but not too loud. I asked about just going direct and they all want the bass amp. No one else uses in-ears. The band is pretty interactive with the crowd and the guys don’t want that hearing separation from what’s going on in the room. I’m the bass player so I can handle it. I guess most of the problem is that my amp does the majority of the work while I wish it was actually up in the mains.

 

[jnewmark]

Hi all. I’m about 30 years playing live gigs pretty consistently. I haven’t kept track, but I’d estimate I’ve done 3000-4000 gigs. I have played all kinds of music on upright and electric basses. Over the years I have played all kinds of gear and all kinds of basses in many situations. While I like gear and versatility and options, I am also a minimalist and efficient. I don’t usually bring anything to a gig that’s not needed and I don’t usually keep gear I’m not using. I have effectively retired from upright bass. So electric bass only since the pandemic started. I’m wondering if some of my recent thoughts are common among my fellow gig veterans.

Gear matters little. All you need is a quality bass and a quality amp. My rig consists of either a jazz bass or a custom Clement PJ 4 string (90% of the time passive fully rolled to the P), a Darkglass Infinity (almost always clean tube, or very little OD, never all out distortion), an Acoustic Image Clarus SL into a Genzler 212.

Most medium to large indoor venues have terrible acoustics, and are designed for their appearance. That means most places are effectively caverns. In a cavern, my compressor and my only effect (Source C4 synth pedal, rarely kicked on for reasons to follow).

I already know that “bedroom tone” doesn’t translate well to live sound. I do tweak things at home at stage volume and that helps. Here’s the thing. In a cavern, it doesn’t matter that I am using a Jazz bass. Compression has little effect. If the synth patches make it through the rest of the wash of cavernous reverb in the placed then it’s way too much. The best thing is literally a passive P bass EQ’d right. Slapping doesn’t cut through (even on an active jazz bass, when it’s boosted enough, it makes a harsh ugly sound in the place) - It’s quieter than playing finger style. Picking on the rock tunes doesn’t cut through. A 5-string? The low notes (below D) just don’t work in those spaces. All the GASsing I do for new gear is in vain because nothing will be heard through the cavernous wash. All that matters is a reasonable stage volume and just being the low end.

Anyone else experiencing the frustration that it’s all in vain? All we have worked for to get a great tone with great effects isn’t going to matter?

Been playing for 40 years, on the average of 3-4 nights a week until the last 5 years or so. Can't really argue with anything you said. All of my gigs have been pretty much one nighters, from tiny banquet rooms, to large outdoor stages, and everything in between. Every room sounds different, no matter how I try to compensate for it. Problem is, I don't usually have time to try to adjust things on the fly; my gigs for the last 15 years are the " get there, set up, play, tear down" type, so Ive tried to just bring what I know usually works for me, mainly a 4 string, passive Jazz with a 115 cab. The only "effect" I use is an adjustable HPF if things are way too boomy.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

In my decades long career, I've found that in a live setting, a passive bass works best- it's almost as if you can 'hear' it better; it sits better in the mix. It's also important to have a good quality bass. Something that sounds good no matter what amp or effects you're using. It's worth the extra money to get a nice Lakland or US Fender for example. You're probably going to run direct anyway. Ive also found that people prefer you to play more simply, but with a more relaxed feel. The vast majority of band members don't give a cr*p that you can solo over complex chord changes. I could go on... but I gotta get ready for tomorrow night's show!

 

[DJ Bebop]

I guess because of my ability or lack there of, I never play cavernous places anymore, those are usually the bigger money gigs.

I'm more of the house party, tavern, small clubs, trying to relive the old hippy daze and party out on someone large plot of land in the summer in a mini Woodstock fashion, at this end of my musical gigging life.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Hi all. I’m about 30 years playing live gigs pretty consistently. I haven’t kept track, but I’d estimate I’ve done 3000-4000 gigs. I have played all kinds of music on upright and electric basses. Over the years I have played all kinds of gear and all kinds of basses in many situations. While I like gear and versatility and options, I am also a minimalist and efficient. I don’t usually bring anything to a gig that’s not needed and I don’t usually keep gear I’m not using. I have effectively retired from upright bass. So electric bass only since the pandemic started. I’m wondering if some of my recent thoughts are common among my fellow gig veterans.

Gear matters little. All you need is a quality bass and a quality amp. My rig consists of either a jazz bass or a custom Clement PJ 4 string (90% of the time passive fully rolled to the P), a Darkglass Infinity (almost always clean tube, or very little OD, never all out distortion), an Acoustic Image Clarus SL into a Genzler 212.

Most medium to large indoor venues have terrible acoustics, and are designed for their appearance. That means most places are effectively caverns. In a cavern, my compressor and my only effect (Source C4 synth pedal, rarely kicked on for reasons to follow).

I already know that “bedroom tone” doesn’t translate well to live sound. I do tweak things at home at stage volume and that helps. Here’s the thing. In a cavern, it doesn’t matter that I am using a Jazz bass. Compression has little effect. If the synth patches make it through the rest of the wash of cavernous reverb in the placed then it’s way too much. The best thing is literally a passive P bass EQ’d right. Slapping doesn’t cut through (even on an active jazz bass, when it’s boosted enough, it makes a harsh ugly sound in the place) - It’s quieter than playing finger style. Picking on the rock tunes doesn’t cut through. A 5-string? The low notes (below D) just don’t work in those spaces. All the GASsing I do for new gear is in vain because nothing will be heard through the cavernous wash. All that matters is a reasonable stage volume and just being the low end.

Anyone else experiencing the frustration that it’s all in vain? All we have worked for to get a great tone with great effects isn’t going to matter?

Yeah.
Ever since I went IEM it doesn't seem to matter what bass or amp I use, I get the same crappy feed in my IEMs every week.
It doesn't matter to the crowd. The only thing that matters at this point is feel, and all my necks feed great.

 

[FullumMusic]

We do have PA and we play for packed rooms of humans. I high pass my amp probably around 60. I send direct to the PA. Band Leader does the mixing, puts me through the subs only. Those stop probably around 80, and also have the kick. When I do the bass breaks in Brown Eyed Girl and Can’t stop the Feeling, it’s like someone is playing it in the next building over. If I kick the preamp to a more upfront setting, or hit the synth, or slap it, it just sounds bad in those large rooms. Just a quiet wash of low end. I could bump me in the mains but then every other thing is too loud. Getting a Noble or Helix or playing a more expensive bass will not make any difference. Lately I have just been forgetting it and plugging in the in-ears with my own mix. There’s gotta be a better way to sit in a full range mix. I guess my point is that any nuances in sound of the bass will just get lost in the reverb so it really doesn’t matter.

Absolutely. I agree 100%. Big Room and Nuance are antithetical by nature.

Think of Arena Rock. After years of Rock shows getting bigger and bigger, they were playing huge arenas. There's ZERO nuance in an arena. Every movement had to be the biggest stage gesture. And eventually they started writing and producing songs with little nuance, where everything was a grand power-moment, because that's what worked on stage in an arena. The venue was influencing the music before it even got there.

Also, different styles of electronic dance music specifically being produced to be played over dance club PAs with subs. We often design and produce songs around the PA capabilities first, really pushing the subs, and keeping a lot of the reverb really really dry because the club itself will reverberate the high hats etc. You'll hear a mix and wonder why it's so dry, but it was specifically designed with the venues in mind.

 

[hennessybass]

1) Play the right note at the right time consistently. Every note matters. 2) Subdivide evenly and accurately.

Agree - When playing live, the playing is way more important than the sounds.
Of course, if the sound is HORRIBLE, then maybe nothing else matters. But get in the sound in the ballpark and let the playing do the work.

3) Fretting over FOH sound doesn’t get you anywhere. If the sound person is good that’s great! If they are not good, there’s ab-sooooo-lootlee nuttin you can do about it. So just play.

Agree - and again back to the playing.
To me, focus on your little corner of the stage. Make it sound good where you are so you can play good.

As to point #3 above: There are a few things I do that seem to be “universal” to get a decent sound. High pass starting at 40hz. Might go up to 60hz. Cut a little 250hz with a narrow Q. Add some 1k-1.5k with a wide Q to add definition but not fret noise/gank. Low pass 3.5k-4k. If my soloed tone sounds a bit (emphasis on “bit”) thin and nasally?

Sounds about right to me.

 

[BassGreaser]

I agree with a lot of what’s being said in this thread.

I’ve played everything from small hole in the walls that hold 50 people with horrible PA (that’s just for vocals) to larger outdoor festivals (Vans Warped Tour).

played everything from alembic, pedulla, Pbass, Jazz bass, upright, Danelectro, active, passive, rounds, flats… for basses

amps: vintage tube amps: Bassmans, Ampeg B25B, V4B. Vintage cabs and speakers to state of the art setups… Thunderfunk, EA, Accugroove..

I’ve realized now in my mid 40s (started professionally gigging at 16) that the bass/strings matter most.

Next is the Cabinet. Amp head is last.

if you have a bass/string that gives you that sound you’re after the cabinet is for your own enjoyment on stage. (of course your fingers and or pick attack counts the most here)

Now my setup is simple… Hofner (Greman) with flats.. BF Three10 with an Ampeg B100r head.

 

[Stranger Danger]

I saw a live band the other night in a decent (non-cavernous) venue where the bassist played with a pick and used chorus. It made the bass “hollow” and “middy” sounding out front.

That’s kinda what chorus and pick do. Sounds great in the right context

 

[Krakmann]

Salud!

I have much lesser experience, but I realized soon that bass tone doesn't really matter 95% of the time in a live situation. A decent bass is more than enough. I never get miked live and I'm always on FoH, so the stage amp is just a monitor for me and I just need watts. It doesn't really matter if the amp is a Hartke, a Behringer, an EBS or my Markbass/Lightbox combo.

This said, I love having two good basses and my B6 to get a great, round VST basic sound, and a good amp solution, and my main drummer loves my tone, but ultimately... it doesn't really matter.

Lots of exceptions, to be sure, but.

 

[Andy Marshman]

I'm in agreement. I wasn't frustrated; I just accepted it. I realized early that for bass, I don't need or want any effects. I'll get 'my sound' from my bass and amp no matter what I own and bring to the gig. I stopped hauling the heavy stuff but at the rehearsal location I have a nice 2x15 rig which has always been key to my sound since the 60s. I stopped playing in bar bands for several reasons but for certain, nobody cares about your amp etc as long as you're not too quiet or crazy loud.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

40 years in the gig wars...and I've got the scars to prove it.
90% bars, clubs, and beer joints.
10% theaters, auditoriums, and festivals.
For the last 30 of those years, I showed up with what I thought was the best tools for the job. A Pbass, an amp, and a passive DI.
Sound guys found me real easy to deal with. Not obsessed with minute details .
Just let me be heard good sir.

 

[bherman]

Many years of experience in this thread with some consistently good advice. 1) Go high quality and keep it simple. 2) Fancy pedals might be fun but they dont matter much.

For me, its a bit more complicated because I play electric upright (an Eminence) and a P bass in the same band. So I have a pedalboard that manages things for me. A tuner; RedEye preamp with two channels to give me enough signal impedance for the upright, and lets me set different levels for the two basses without having to make any adjustments during sets; and a mild overdrive to give the P bass a bit of grit (Genzler 4 on the floor). Signal goes to my amp and a single 112, then from amp to FOH. Moderate stage volumes, always an easy time with sound guys (for larger gigs); when we run our own sound everything is preset with usually only modest adjustments needed.

 

[VeryTallBassist]

My experience is similar but with my item gear I've become comfortable with. Mind you, I'm just getting back to gigging after taking 10+ years off, and what works for me may not be the latest and greatest, but it's what worked for me over 25 years of gigging prior to my break and still works today. As such, I've built my collection of instruments accordingly with just a couple of outliers that are more studio basses. For live performances, I've kind of settled on Spector 5 string basses with EMG 40P5/40DC pickups and a HAZ or HAZ clone preamp through a GK head and Aguilar GS212 cabinet. I'm running just a hair off boost on the amp for very mild overdrive, otherwise no effects at all. My bedroom tone is a little thin and on the middy side with this setup, but in a live venue in the mix it sits just right between the kick drum and the guitar. I get a lot of compliments on how articulate the bass is from my band mates, sound guys, and other musicians (normies don't usually notice lol). I've tried other instruments and gear with varying but lesser degrees of success, and realized this is what gets it done for me.

 

[SLO Surfer]

I come from a very similar background in 30+ years of professional gigging upright and electric bass from punk bands opening for Guttermouth to cruise ship show bands to Afrobeat ensembles to symphony orchestras and anything you can imagine in between.

I try to take more of a “glass is half full” kind of approach. (Which means I buy a bunch of unnecessary gear cause it’s fun and some of it can actually help the bass sound in cavernous rooms but my bands try to stick to good/fun gigs only so we can stay in the “glass is half full” kind of mindset).

 

[Baz in Kent]

Hi, I’ve recently started gigging bass after many years as a gigging guitarist (it’s what the band needs, I still play guitar in another band), the thing is I stopped using an amp years ago due to back problems carrying the damn thing so I’m using my Helix with a bass (SVT) preset and IEMs - just like my guitar setup. It sounds great on stage but I’m wondering if our P.A. needs a subwoofer for FOH? We generally play in pubs but also clubs and other venues with a stage.
It’s a quite antiquated Peavey amp/speakers with 15” cabs.
I’d rather not buy something I need to carry but if I do need to I’d like to keep the weight to a minimum and get the best value. So… - nothing, a sub (probably Eurolive 1200) or a Rumble 800?
What do you guys think?
Cheers, Baz

 

[-Stingray]

There are a few things I do that seem to be “universal” to get a decent sound. High pass starting at 40hz. Might go up to 60hz. Cut a little 250hz with a narrow Q. Add some 1k-1.5k with a wide Q to add definition but not fret noise/gank. Low pass 3.5k-4k.

I’m a rank amateur compared to most of you guys. My gigs are measured in the hundreds, not thousands.

That said, this post is spot freaking on.

 

[Highs&Lows]

IME it really depends on the type of gig. But there are certainly those with cavernous venues and terrible acoustics. I just accept it and wont bother too much. My focus on those gigs is not ruining my ears and playing a comfortable and ergonomic bass. Being comfortable physically helps me through those gigs. No more boat anchors and neck divers. No tinnitus at 4 am keeping me awake.

 

[Derek Kay]

Lots of experience displayed in this thread, agree with most of it.
Less cabs, amps, effects and basses.

I got by with 1x15, 1x12 (also a combo) and an amphead. That gave me 5 combinations for BG and DB. Compact, efficient and fits in back of a small car.

Playing a good fundamental in the right place kept me in work for decades. Less is more. Now if I could only upgrade my spine...