Gigging thoughts after 30 years playing live

[Killing Floor]

Nope. Took me nearly 4 decades to learn tone comes from pedals.

 

[_Tay_]

Chasing tone and spending a lot on effects may not matter as such in a live environment. Though it absolutely DOES matter if it inspires you to play better. If your tone is uninspiring then you just kinda go through the motions live but if it sounds great to you, you get into it more, play better and it doesn't matter what Joe thinks standing 40 ft away in the audience.

 

[InhumanResource]

Hi all. I’m about 30 years playing live gigs pretty consistently. I haven’t kept track, but I’d estimate I’ve done 3000-4000 gigs. I have played all kinds of music on upright and electric basses. Over the years I have played all kinds of gear and all kinds of basses in many situations. While I like gear and versatility and options, I am also a minimalist and efficient. I don’t usually bring anything to a gig that’s not needed and I don’t usually keep gear I’m not using. I have effectively retired from upright bass. So electric bass only since the pandemic started. I’m wondering if some of my recent thoughts are common among my fellow gig veterans.

Gear matters little. All you need is a quality bass and a quality amp. My rig consists of either a jazz bass or a custom Clement PJ 4 string (90% of the time passive fully rolled to the P), a Darkglass Infinity (almost always clean tube, or very little OD, never all out distortion), an Acoustic Image Clarus SL into a Genzler 212.

Most medium to large indoor venues have terrible acoustics, and are designed for their appearance. That means most places are effectively caverns. In a cavern, my compressor and my only effect (Source C4 synth pedal, rarely kicked on for reasons to follow).

I already know that “bedroom tone” doesn’t translate well to live sound. I do tweak things at home at stage volume and that helps. Here’s the thing. In a cavern, it doesn’t matter that I am using a Jazz bass. Compression has little effect. If the synth patches make it through the rest of the wash of cavernous reverb in the placed then it’s way too much. The best thing is literally a passive P bass EQ’d right. Slapping doesn’t cut through (even on an active jazz bass, when it’s boosted enough, it makes a harsh ugly sound in the place) - It’s quieter than playing finger style. Picking on the rock tunes doesn’t cut through. A 5-string? The low notes (below D) just don’t work in those spaces. All the GASsing I do for new gear is in vain because nothing will be heard through the cavernous wash. All that matters is a reasonable stage volume and just being the low end.

Anyone else experiencing the frustration that it’s all in vain? All we have worked for to get a great tone with great effects isn’t going to matter?

This isn’t my experience, though I agree gear isn’t all that important. I play with an ampless band through really nice PA systems with a good sound man. My p bass sounds nice, and my G&L growls with plenty of top end clarity. No caverns. Compression works great but I leave it to the board, I don’t bother with any effects. Everything sounds awesome in my in ears as well as out front.

I do eschew some of the conventional TB wisdom about HPF’s and stuff, but again they might choose to do that at the board. I’m plug and play.

I don’t really chase tone but I have bought a couple of basses that do what I want then to do for different scenarios and that is working pretty well for me.

 

[Indiana Mike]

I haven’t done thousand , but I like gear and flip between basses on a regular basis.

However

I have bought new gear for no one to notice or comment and yes it’s often lost in the wash.

It’s bass
It’s rythym.
You wanna be out front, be a lead singer lol

 

[Mike Caldwell]

We do have PA and we play for packed rooms of humans. I high pass my amp probably around 60. I send direct to the PA. Band Leader does the mixing, puts me through the subs only. Those stop probably around 80, and also have the kick. When I do the bass breaks in Brown Eyed Girl and Can’t stop the Feeling, it’s like someone is playing it in the next building over. If I kick the preamp to a more upfront setting, or hit the synth, or slap it, it just sounds bad in those large rooms. Just a quiet wash of low end. I could bump me in the mains but then every other thing is too loud. Getting a Noble or Helix or playing a more expensive bass will not make any difference. Lately I have just been forgetting it and plugging in the in-ears with my own mix. There’s gotta be a better way to sit in a full range mix. I guess my point is that any nuances in sound of the bass will just get lost in the reverb so it really doesn’t matter.

You should be in the mains as well as in the subs as well as the kick, properly balanced. Sounds like your PA needs a help on the set up and system configuring

 

[wyleeboxer]

What I’ve come to realize is as long as can hear myself (very well, not loud just each note I can hear) I’m happy, cuz it’s a struggle with minimal sound check time and different rooms. Most of my gigs are cover bands with a FOH sound, I stopped caring years ago if I’m cutting thru out in the audience or not. I just trust that I am and play on! It really gets down to how my bass feels and it’s tone that inspires my playing live, I’m not into having an air guitar tone and wondering if I played a bass line cleanly? So for the most part amps and cabs just need to articulate and amplify what my bass and fingers are doing.
However, if I’m playing in my original rock band, which is rare, I’ll bust out the pedal board and all the fun effects!

 

[bass12]

Most of the large rooms I play are with in-ears and a good FOH soundman. The bass I play definitely makes a difference to me (in my monitors) and our regular FOH guy certainly finds some basses easier to fit nicely into the mix than others. I've heard just as many Ps get lost in a big room as any other bass - and I'd rather have my J then a P. Having a a good outboard preamp (with HPF) has helped me get a sound I'm happy with (in-ear-wise) on most occasions. My pedals also come through well in my in-ears. How well they come through in the room is up to FOH. For smaller gigs I'm very particular about my amp/cabinet setup (so, again, the gear makes a big difference).

 

[Pocket Dave]

In a year, it'll be 50 for me. Lots of experience in those kinds of rooms. Dallas area TB'ers will probably share some PTSD memories of rooms like the Union Station upstairs ballroom and the State Fair Hall of State.

Last night, big festival stage and indoor space the size of a livestock auction hall or vehicle assembly plant. Pretty cavernous.

It's been my experience that lowering volume works better than boosting it under the circumstances. Never ideal, but it is what it is.

Frustrating? I just try to go with it. I look at it as a small ongoing dues payment for the great sounding rooms and truly fun venues. It's just a gig; It's only sound; It'll go away.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I’m one year shy of 40 years playing out. The bulk of my experience has been in bars and small halls. When I did play larger stages or outdoors it was always with FOH support, for the smaller places sound was run from the stage and my only involvement in sound setting was lugging equipment in and out and setup/breakdown. With the exception of a ten year period were I was playing out 3~5 nights a week with the same band, it was more 3~5 times a month. There were several exceptions were I played every weekend for the life of the band, and being called to fill in for a night or two, that was the bulk of my experience
my gear has always been an amp(s), speaker cabinet(s), and a bass, all connected with cables. I also used a pocket sized tuner until I got a stompbox tuner that I also used as a mute. I’ve used several different amp and cabinet brands and combinations, and a few different basses, and once bought an SWR Working pro 12 to use as a bass monitor because I was having trouble hearing myself when I was in a house band playing under a 3 sided corrugated tin shed at a campground with a large outdoor dance floor. The only gear I carry besides the usual extra cables, strings, etc, was a quality direct box which has been used a total of four times. I’m a ham and egger who plays out as much for therapy as for my love for music. Given the money I saved on shrinks over the years, I’ve always made money playing in bands, even when I only got fed, or was in a jam band put together a week before the only job we would ever do for a friend’s birthday, anniversary, etc. i’m fortunate to have a brother who is an actual musician who has been my (almost) singular source of playing opportunities. I do get other calls from time to time but as I age out of so many other things, the calls are coming less often than they used to.

Loved your post.

 

[DB66]

This excerpt from an interview with bassist Ian Hill of Judas Priest stuck with me regarding his reason for using a pick.


Interviewer: Generally, your parts have been mixed reasonably high over the years.

“For the most part, yes. There were a couple of songs in the ’80s where it was all guitar, basically. All you could hear was a snare drum, if you’re lucky. One of the reasons I started playing with a pick was to cut through all of that. With the distorted guitar sound, playing bass with your fingers just vanished into a little rumbling in the background, so the pick helped to clarify everything.”

 

[REV]

The last couple of years I've been playing mostly brewery type places with high metal ceilings and concrete floors and cinder block walls. One thing I have found to be very effective in places like this is placing a block of foam underneath the strings at the bridge. I always have several types of foam in different heights and widths in my gig bag. These come in very handy in the studio as well.

 

[Odinbass]

Ive opted for ‘head in the sand’ or more specifically in-ears.

My monitor mix has a perfect bass tone that makes me happy. The audience usually hears something akin to a muffled fart.

I try to live in my fantasy world and not worry about it.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I’ve played a lot; more years, but certainly nowhere near 3000-4000 gigs (That’s 1.9-2.5 gigs per week average for 30 years), so I’m definitely not going to say anything from that level of experience (or burnout, whichever applies).
All I can say is that I still hear bands with what I consider bad tone coming from the bass, so The bassist either doesn’t know how to get good tone, or has given up on trying to get good tone, or it’s me and I don’t know good tone. Whatever the case, the effort of the bassist to get good tone is not lost one me, but, as a bassist myself, I probably don’t matter.

 

[Mastermold]

Nope. Took me nearly 4 decades to learn tone comes from pedals.

Damn. In 40 years I've never gigged with pedals!

 

[Mastermold]

In a year, it'll be 50 for me. Lots of experience in those kinds of rooms. Dallas area TB'ers will probably share some PTSD memories of rooms like the Union Station upstairs ballroom and the State Fair Hall of State.

Last night, big festival stage and indoor space the size of a livestock auction hall or vehicle assembly plant. Pretty cavernous.

It's been my experience that lowering volume works better than boosting it under the circumstances. Never ideal, but it is what it is.

Frustrating? I just try to go with it. I look at it as a small ongoing dues payment for the great sounding rooms and truly fun venues. It's just a gig; It's only sound; It'll go away.

Yeah I can't generalize on room type, the clubs and bars around here (OC and LA) vary from no PA support to million dollar sound systems. I just do what I can to sound good, hope for the best, and win some and lose some.

 

[P. Aaron]

Hi all.


Anyone else experiencing the frustration that it’s all in vain? All we have worked for to get a great tone with great effects isn’t going to matter?

No matter one’s gear or playing style, we’re at the mercy of the venue and end up mixing to the band sounds coming back at us. Similarly to your post, I use no effects, once in a while turning a knob on my Mesa WD-800 just to see what it does.
I usually just turn a tone/bass or volume knob. It’s mostly in the moment and that’s almost always the way it goes.

It wouldn’t be worth discussing if we didn’t develop skills to adapt, and all are shows were vanilla. Add-on devices can be of help, in small or large doses depending upon if it’s a Motown gig or ButtHole Surfers tribute. If there is such a thing.

Even the same venue, a few weeks removed from the last time there offers new challenges. The music doesn’t change much but our temperament does. Keeping a professional attitude is what I have to remind myself of most of the time. Not a cold-stone pro but, an adaptive artist with experiences to draw on.

 

[57pbass]

I’ve heard a few recordings of our shows on social media and the bass sounds nothing like it does on stage. It actually had me change up the way I play many of the tunes. In these large rooms the notes are huge and most times without too much clarity.
It was really an ear opener for me.

We did see Duran Duran outdoors over the last summer and the bass mix was superb.. so the venue has a great impact on the overall sound.

 

[sedan_dad]

I swear, at least half the bass gear industry exists only because so many of us are obsessed with details that don’t matter in the real world—or worse, are just plain counterproductive.

Amen

 

[pfschim]

55 years gigging with thousands of gigs under my belt. All kinds of stuff over the years from cocktail in a tux to big festival stages. Rock, Pop, Jazz, Fusion, World Music, Latin, Americana ... all kinds!

I'm with you on keeping it simple as possible. For me it's always been a jazz bass ... usually passive. For the past 20 years I have used a small pedal board with comp and some kind of pre/DI. For the past 5 years its been a Cali76CB and a Noble. I can add FX but rarely do. The thing I find about the "fancy" gear is that it definitely make the sound I hear better to my ears, and that makes me happy, and a happy bass player plays better ... IMO/IME.

Sound for me is across the board from very small/intimate venues with only vox in the PA, to band provided speakers on sticks + sub, to medium/large/stadium sized stages with big PA and pro sound techs. I've always made it a habit to be easy to work with as far as a the sound crew goes and by and large I've pretty much always been able to work with the live sound mix I got. I started using IEM in the past 3 years and it's been a really great revelation. My IEM tone always puts a smile on my face and even if the audience is not hearing exactly what I'm hearing, the better sound in my ears makes me play better.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

In year 50 of gigging. In response to the OP: In a word, yes. Although I have mostly avoided the amplification rabbit hole, I've gone whole-heartedly down the bass rabbit hole, many times. Getting ready to do so again, but will soon be offering up many to new homes (famous last words). As it is more or less the beginning of the year, I'm doing my typical pulling out, setting up, and gigging almost all of my basses prior to deciding which ones to sell. The recurring issue is: when I finally gig a long-neglected bass, I remember how much fun it is to play and how cool it sounds and feels in its own special way. Then I just want to keep it! Still, at the gig, in the thick of it, there are only a few that don't cover whatever I need bass-wise, but those are keepers because they do one or two things much better than my all-purpose basses.

I am glad I started using a HPF. World of difference!

BBB