Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Gilded Bird - Geo's new Thunderbird related project
- Thread starter JIO
- Start date
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
My 'Wrench Force' portable bicycle work-stand has come in handy gilding body's. Very adjustable and easy to maneuver.
... and also useful for a neck-thru bass once rigged - I shot these pics outside but will be gilding it inside. The slightest breeze will blow the super-thin leaf - even have to control your breath gilding. But after becoming familiar with a mask during the Covid period, I think I'll wear one to avoid issues.
The tri-pod legs are long and sturdy making the stand very stable. Even then, I still need to be gentle working on it to avoid it tipping, but gilding is a very finesse oriented discipline so it should work well.
... and also useful for a neck-thru bass once rigged - I shot these pics outside but will be gilding it inside. The slightest breeze will blow the super-thin leaf - even have to control your breath gilding. But after becoming familiar with a mask during the Covid period, I think I'll wear one to avoid issues.
The tri-pod legs are long and sturdy making the stand very stable. Even then, I still need to be gentle working on it to avoid it tipping, but gilding is a very finesse oriented discipline so it should work well.
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Just for information sake - I weighed the bass sans hardware - 6lbs/8oz - 2.5lbs lighter than fully assembled. (9lbs)
Tools of the trade - gilding size has gone up since I last bought some. (1pt - $36.92!) Gilding "size" is basically a slow-setting varnish specially formulated for gilding. There is also a water-based size which is good for keeping the smell down. I've used it where I'm working in a clients home where they are there. I don't trust it for an instrument and the alkyd-based size is thinner and levels better.
Once the item is coated, you wait an hour until it has sufficient 'tack' to start gilding. How you determine it has 'sufficient tack' is by lightly touching it with your knuckle. It should feel 'tacky' but not sticky. When the proper tack is there - you have around an hour to apply the leaf. (depending on temp/humidity) Once it starts setting it won't have sufficient tack to grab/hold the leaf. So you need to plan your attack and work very focused to do the area you coated with size before it sets up. I like to put on music that helps me stay focused, like Miles Davis Bitches Brew, or most anything by Brian Eno or Paul Schütz. (more trancy/no words)
I have 'slow-set' size which is good for large jobs because it 'stays open' longer. However, once applied, it can't be worked on for 24 hrs so you need to plan things out longer and hope you gauge it right. Using the fast-set size, I'll need to stagger applying size over a couple hours. I can usually gild a body in an hour, a body/neck will take longer.
Tools of the trade - gilding size has gone up since I last bought some. (1pt - $36.92!) Gilding "size" is basically a slow-setting varnish specially formulated for gilding. There is also a water-based size which is good for keeping the smell down. I've used it where I'm working in a clients home where they are there. I don't trust it for an instrument and the alkyd-based size is thinner and levels better.
Once the item is coated, you wait an hour until it has sufficient 'tack' to start gilding. How you determine it has 'sufficient tack' is by lightly touching it with your knuckle. It should feel 'tacky' but not sticky. When the proper tack is there - you have around an hour to apply the leaf. (depending on temp/humidity) Once it starts setting it won't have sufficient tack to grab/hold the leaf. So you need to plan your attack and work very focused to do the area you coated with size before it sets up. I like to put on music that helps me stay focused, like Miles Davis Bitches Brew, or most anything by Brian Eno or Paul Schütz. (more trancy/no words)
I have 'slow-set' size which is good for large jobs because it 'stays open' longer. However, once applied, it can't be worked on for 24 hrs so you need to plan things out longer and hope you gauge it right. Using the fast-set size, I'll need to stagger applying size over a couple hours. I can usually gild a body in an hour, a body/neck will take longer.
Last edited:
Great!! It looks so different in different lighting. (I had trouble doing justice with my camera to that GILDAXE that you had at Rick R's house…I got very different results in different light. Which reveals the main magic of your finishes: they look so fab, and so different in different conditions. It is as though one gets 10-12 different finishes with one of yours.
VERY COOL!
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Thanks! Unlike my SuperB 5'r, very little of the RO base colour will show but what does show will support the overall gestalt. And yes, metallic finishes look different in different light and really look great on stage with stage lighting. I had yet to discover the 'gold dust' which would have worked great on this finish.This is not a very good pic, but it's from a live performance by the Mermen at Slims in SF. I did Alan Whitmans P-bass in etched silver-leaf and Pat Wilkins did a mint--green halo and hs face to visually align with the mint-green MOTO pg.
11 years ago! Alan came up with the basses 'name' -
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Ok - here's the "step-by-step" promised. First, I segregated the center raised section and started there. I did this because then I can install the stand support once gilded - it would have been in the way. I taped off the seam and applied a thin coat of the size, which levels-off nice. A drop-off like that can sometimes be difficult to get the leaf to stick in a controllable fashion, so I will probably do that on the back also. Doing it in steps, that would make it a three step process; 1&2 being the center sections/neck, and 3 being the two wings front & back plus sides. I'll post a bit at a time between these 3 steps as I need to wait an hour between fr the size to achieve optimal tact.
Center section taped off and coated with size -
Work area for the 1st step -
Once coated - tape is removed. Tape can adversely interact with paint if left on too long - can't risk that. I use a 3M tape made for decorative finishes - very thin for isolating paint precisely.
An example of an 'island' of leaf -
Leaf can be placed side-by-side as squares, but I prefer a montage of disparate 'islands' of various sizes. It makes for a more interesting look and the seams (places where they meet) are more organic. On a picture frame, it doesn't matter so much to see straight seams. Here's an example of side-by-side and also how the drop off created a less manageable transition. It still looks good - just another way of doing it.
The front is more like I'm doing this one, incorporating islands.
Center section taped off and coated with size -
Work area for the 1st step -
Once coated - tape is removed. Tape can adversely interact with paint if left on too long - can't risk that. I use a 3M tape made for decorative finishes - very thin for isolating paint precisely.
An example of an 'island' of leaf -
Leaf can be placed side-by-side as squares, but I prefer a montage of disparate 'islands' of various sizes. It makes for a more interesting look and the seams (places where they meet) are more organic. On a picture frame, it doesn't matter so much to see straight seams. Here's an example of side-by-side and also how the drop off created a less manageable transition. It still looks good - just another way of doing it.
The front is more like I'm doing this one, incorporating islands.
Yup, I prefer islands. With sandy beaches. And bikini girls. And fruity drinks. 
Wait, where were we?
Wait, where were we?
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Removed the tape off the fb before gilding. If you remove it after, there is a risk of the leaf clinging to the tape and pealing off. Any leaf on a non-sized area sticks sometimes but is easily removed.
I place the islands randomly over the whole area sized. Once the leaf meets the size - it's a matter of covering all exposed base colour before using a soft-bristle brush to level it all. I bought a couple of synthetic basting brushes which work well.
Done, I'll wait a bit less as it was already starting to set up. Gold 'dust' is vacuumed off after using the soft brush to smooth the leaf against the surface and remove overlapped leaf.
Details are where it's at.
Support connected - ready for the rest of the bass.
Secured and ready to further rock -
Center section taped, coated, tape removed - wait one hour.
Some of the music I'm listening to while gilding including a recent LP release by tb member @Felix Lopez - perfect 'soundtrack' for the needed focus required to create beauty.
I place the islands randomly over the whole area sized. Once the leaf meets the size - it's a matter of covering all exposed base colour before using a soft-bristle brush to level it all. I bought a couple of synthetic basting brushes which work well.
Done, I'll wait a bit less as it was already starting to set up. Gold 'dust' is vacuumed off after using the soft brush to smooth the leaf against the surface and remove overlapped leaf.
Details are where it's at.
Support connected - ready for the rest of the bass.
Secured and ready to further rock -
Center section taped, coated, tape removed - wait one hour.
Some of the music I'm listening to while gilding including a recent LP release by tb member @Felix Lopez - perfect 'soundtrack' for the needed focus required to create beauty.
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Back center section started -
Using the soft brush to level the leaf against the surface -
Done -
Detail -
I taped off the neck mimicking the V-joint that the wings are attached to the neck-thru center section on a '63-'65 T-bird II & IV. Not sure if this is the way it's done on the Epi VP, as the tobacco halo was too dark to discern if that V-joint is there. It's a good way to segregate the neck for gilding, and a bit of a fun reference for T-bird owners.
The thin gilding will press into the stamped serial # and be visible/readable -
Once coated the fb & hs tape was removed. Ready for gilding in an hour.
Using the soft brush to level the leaf against the surface -
Done -
Detail -
I taped off the neck mimicking the V-joint that the wings are attached to the neck-thru center section on a '63-'65 T-bird II & IV. Not sure if this is the way it's done on the Epi VP, as the tobacco halo was too dark to discern if that V-joint is there. It's a good way to segregate the neck for gilding, and a bit of a fun reference for T-bird owners.
The thin gilding will press into the stamped serial # and be visible/readable -
Once coated the fb & hs tape was removed. Ready for gilding in an hour.
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Neck/hs done -
Just needs a bit of clean-up - black gloss hs face will be shot gloss in the final finish so it will need to be dulled before sending to Pat. (should have done it already... )
Stamped serial # intact -
Just needs a bit of clean-up - black gloss hs face will be shot gloss in the final finish so it will need to be dulled before sending to Pat. (should have done it already... )
Stamped serial # intact -
Last edited:
When you're finished with all that, what is the texture going to feel like for the person playing?
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
There is no texture - the leaf is very thin and after clear-coating it will be as smooth as any sprayed/buffed finish. Anything that looks textural is purely visual.
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
Removed the tape off the fb before gilding. If you remove it after, there is a risk of the leaf clinging to the tape and pealing off. Any leaf on a non-sized area sticks sometimes but is easily removed.
View attachment 5121100
I place the islands randomly over the whole area sized. Once the leaf meets the size - it's a matter of covering all exposed base colour before using a soft-bristle brush to level it all. I bought a couple of synthetic basting brushes which work well.
View attachment 5121101
Done, I'll wait a bit less as it was already starting to set up. Gold 'dust' is vacuumed off after using the soft brush to smooth the leaf against the surface and remove overlapped leaf.
View attachment 5121102
Details are where it's at.
View attachment 5121103
Support connected - ready for the rest of the bass.
View attachment 5121104
Secured and ready to further rock -
View attachment 5121105
Center section taped, coated, tape removed - wait one hour.
View attachment 5121106
Some of the music I'm listening to while gilding including a recent LP release by tb member @Felix Lopez - perfect 'soundtrack' for the needed focus required to create beauty.
View attachment 5121025
JIO, What an honor to be part of this process of creation!
This one is for you: CLOSEUPS"ES
Last edited:
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
No need to gild under the pg - also saves leaf which isn't cheap and it provides a space to sign the bass.
pg will be blk/wt/blk with a raised gold Thunderbird
pg will be blk/wt/blk with a raised gold Thunderbird
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,632
- 222,240
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
And he'll likely retire as soon as he can.I hated to jump to conclusions, but I've had many issues with delivery services since moving to the Mission SF 3 yrs ago. It coincided with Covid and so I don't know if it's always been this way. I do like meeting my neighborhood USPS carrier and finding him a friendly, responsible civil servant - it's the way it should be. (unfortunately 'old-school' and not always the case these days) There are simple, nice things like that which help balance theliving in an urban environment.
