GK MB Fusion 500 - tubes choice

[Al Kraft]

Would there be any cost saving in designing it in such a way that it doesn't sound at all like tubes?

To the best of my knowledge the simple answer is no, and I'm not sure why anyone would want to shoot for a design goal like that in this kind of application. Tubes and tube-like sound sells!

However, a poorly executed good design, a bad design, or just plain incompetence as a designer could land you in a spot where the tubes might as well be solid state components. In fairness though, I have a hard time applying any of those situations to GK.

The tubes may have been marginal to spec to start with and now are not operating within the expected parameters at all. Maybe a tube swap if that's easy for you could help???

 

[Real Soon]

I play a 500 Fusion. Contour off, Presence off, Deep off. Before I screw with the bass & treble bands, I generally set the two mid controls roughly reverse each other... for example for a basic rock tone starting point, low-mids at 2:00 and high-mids at 10:00. Usually probably take the treble down a bit, unless I'm on a P bass. Whatever I'm feeling like for the bass EQ, usually a slight boost.

Set the gain to noon and I've got a tone I like with the ability to add some hair by digging in. Nothing I would ever refer to as farty comes out of either the Hartke 210XL or Ampeg 2x10 cab, and the only thing I wish the head would do differently is drive more aggressively the higher I turn the gain. It's a gorgeous drive IMO, just a modest one.

It's true, too, that it drives differently from the ToneHammer. Still...that description makes me wonder if this one isn't faulty; that reads nothing like the sound that comes out of mine.

 

[BaltBass5]

Sovtek WA LPS
Or
JJ Long Plates

 

[Dominic D]

Would there be any cost saving in designing it in such a way that it doesn't sound at all like tubes?

There's more than one tube sound. This is a GK amp that's designed to sound like a GK amp. It's not going to sound like a vintage tube amp.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

What are the tubes for then?
I don't want vintage, but I do want tube overdrive.

You guys do realize I'm turning the gain past noon, right?

As far as I can tell the tubes have no benefit, because it has that same SS fart overdrive that the regular MB500 had.

 

[Dominic D]

Exactly. These amps aren't intended to be used that way. That's why it's producing a displeasing sound. It's design to take advantage of what tubes do to the clean sound. It's hard to explain, but it's a general sweetening of the GK sound. Fatter, smoother, and other subjective words.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I can't even hear a difference between tube & SS until they go into overdrive.

With guitar I can tell, but not at all with bass.
BTW, the OD with a guitar doesn't sound so pleasing either. I've tried it.

It just occurred to me that maybe I need something like a Peavey 6505+, or of course a Marshall Super Bass.

 

[RoadRanger]

What are the tubes for then?

To get "gotta have tube doodz" to buy it .

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I would like (at a minimum) to have at least this much OD:

 

[Passinwind]

What are the tubes for then?

IMHO, mostly to mellow out the sometimes slightly strident high end that G-K's are felt to have by a certain faction of people. If you are still going for the Lemmy sound, and demand that the amp produces that in standalone mode, this is just flat out the wrong tool.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

My guitar tube amp does it well, but it's only 18 watts. It's not really something I can shake the floor with.
However, I could if I ran the tube pre-amp of the H&K to the Return on the GK.
It just seems like a huge PITA for every time I want to play.

That's what burns me, another tube amp pre-amp does just what I want.
Why couldn't GK just have made their pre-amp like a regular guitar amp pre-amp?

 

[joel406]

Isn't that tone in your fingers?

 

[Dominic D]

Why couldn't GK just have made their pre-amp like a regular guitar amp pre-amp?

It wouldn't sound like a GK then. It's kinda like buying a screwdriver and wondering why it doesn't work as a hammer. You've got the wrong tool for the job.

 

[TomB]

I agree that the MBF is voiced to sound more like a GK amp with some added richness than a tube guitar amp. Of the MB amps I've tried (all except the MBF800) the MB200 & MB800 seem "tubiest", at least to my ears, but they don't "break up" anything like a tube power section with the gain cranked.

If I read your posts right, you have a TH350, not a TH pedal. Is that correct? What were you looking for in the MBF that the TH350 didn't provide ...more volume? ...simpler controls?

In any case it would be interesting to hear how your idea of TH + the Quilter block works out if you go that route. Early adopters seem happy with its voice and simple controls. ...maybe even going through its front end. You could circle back here and let us know how it works out if you do. Hey, it's only money, right .

 

[fakeneckplate'65]

I think we need some audio samples so we know what you're hearing.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

The last time I made audio samples, it resulted in me selling my TH350.

the MB200 & MB800 seem "tubiest", at least to my ears, but they don't "break up" anything like a tube power section with the gain cranked.

I've read that about the MB800, and I'm sure it's because of having a FET pre-amp.
The MB200 won't break up at all, because there's only one gain knob. They've even labeled the one volume knob "gain".

If I read your posts right, you have a TH350, not a TH pedal.

I had a TH350 & sold it, which wasn't such a smart move. I got it cheap too ($340 new).
Now I have a TH pre-amp pedal that I picked up in a pawn shop for only $100.

What were you looking for in the MBF that the TH350 didn't provide ...more volume? ...simpler controls?

Real tube overdrive, and I am obviously barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.

 

[RoadRanger]

The last time I made audio samples, it resulted in me selling my TH350.

LOL!

The MB200 won't break up at all, because there's only one gain knob.

My two break up (AKA "grind") just fine but they are super loud when doing so as there is no "master".

Real tube overdrive, and I am obviously barking up the wrong tree, so to speak.

If you're not looking to play with a drummer just get an Ampeg PF-20T - the real thing . It can even be used as a preamp if you need more some day (it can run without a cab, has a built-in dummy load I think).

I have an Ashdown CTM-30 at one of my rehearsal spots and it does keep up with a reasonable drummer - but the EQ on it sucks eggs (cheaparse Fender tone stack ) and the tone is Marshally not Ampegish. As I run it flat out it works good as a reason to yell at the guitards to turn down . I can play without earplugs with a single guitard but two no way .

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Maybe I'm getting used to it, or maybe I finally figured out how to back off the Gain just a little & set the EQ better.
Then again, maybe it's just because I haven't plugged in my all tube amp since Friday, except to run the Send to the G-K Return.

The default on these G-K amps is to scoop, which bugs me, because for my purposes it sounds better anti-scooped.
With the treble & bass backed off to 9 o'clock & the mids bumped up a little, it sounds mucho better with some overdrive.

I'll still swap in my Tung-Sol tubes as soon as that 5.5mm nut driver arrives.
Maybe I'll even try the Shuguang as well. Maybe a low-gain set of tubes would actually sound better in there.
Meanwhile I'll be able to see if I like the sound of those JJs in my Hughes & Kettner guitar amp. I already know the Tung-Sol sound better than the Shuguang in that.

 

[TomB]

Congrats - you've discovered the GK "flat" position (see Bass Gear magazine article on the topic). Many players set their MB's that way... including me, though I tend to use 10 or 11 o'clock for bass & treble, 12 or 1 o'clock for mids.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

It's not as badly scooped as my H&K tube amp. That one needs mids to 3 o'clock & treble & bass to about 8 o'clock to be flat.