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Global Warming - It's Our Fault

#522
hbarcat said:
I reiterate: The push to ethanol began in earnest well before 2008. It was well under way in the early 90's and it was being driven by environmentalists.
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392px-Ethanol_production_and_imports_in_the_US.svg.png


And increasing oil prices began before 2008. I used 2008 as the peak of oil prices.

Can you see a connection between oil prices and ethanol production here?

Using Occam's Razor, high oil prices seems like the most plausible explanation for the turn to ethanol.

As BawanaRik astutely pointed out, it takes a lot of petroleum inputs to produce ethanol so that the net return on energy invested is close to zero.
 
#523
BawanaRik said:
Shouldn't the consumers who created the demand for "Big Oil" be responsible?

And just where do you think "big oil" will go to get the money to pay for any cleanups etc?

The consumer.
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A very good and true point. We so much like to point the finger at Big Oil for these problems, but they exist and operate because of our voracious demands for their products.

In the bigger picture of climate change, the best course of action is to reduce your individual consumption of fossil fuels to the maximum extent practical.

Read that carefully; I did not say to live in the Stone Age without fossil fuels, but to reduce your consumption as much as you practically can.
 
#525
hbarcat said:
It amazes me that so many people can congratulate themselves for being sharp enough to see through the propaganda of Big Petroleum, yet they gullibly accept similar propaganda coming from those who stand to make similar fortunes in alternative energy. Ethanol is a perfect illustration of this. The global warming crisis mongers demanded that something be done about GW - immediately - because there was no time to waste.

So the United States started converting a large percentage of its corn crops to make ethanol and blend it in with gasoline. An entire new special interest group sprang up overnight in the U.S. and they are now making billions of dollars a year on an ill conceived scheme that creates more CO2 emissions than it saves while at the same time has decimated the corn export trade that helps to provide inexpensive food to 3rd world countries.

It's the people who are advocating that we blindly trust every alternative energy salesman that comes along and the policy makers who empower them with virtual blank checks cashed on our bank accounts. They would have us trade one overlord for another. Meet the new boss - same as the old boss.

You also seem to have missed the key point I was making. That it might be better to make gradual, common sense changes, based on careful planning and phased in as they become practical, than to make monumental and irreversible, hasty decisions, based on fear and anger.
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May I say sir that I thoroughly enjoy reading your fair & balanced common sense posts - thanks.
 
#527
NWB said:
A very good and true point. We so much like to point the finger at Big Oil for these problems, but they exist and operate because of our voracious demands for their products.

In the bigger picture of climate change, the best course of action is to reduce your individual consumption of fossil fuels to the maximum extent practical.

Read that carefully; I did not say to live in the Stone Age without fossil fuels, but to reduce your consumption as much as you practically can.
Click to expand...

Thanks
 
#528
NWB said:
Price_of_oil_%282003-2008%29.png


392px-Ethanol_production_and_imports_in_the_US.svg.png


And increasing oil prices began before 2008. I used 2008 as the peak of oil prices.

Can you see a connection between oil prices and ethanol production here?

Using Occam's Razor, high oil prices seems like the most plausible explanation for the turn to ethanol.

As BawanaRik astutely pointed out, it takes a lot of petroleum inputs to produce ethanol so that the net return on energy invested is close to zero.
Click to expand...

Eye R edyoucated.

BTW the WSJ had a good piece about the link between the price of gold and barrels of oil.
 
#532
dmusic148 said:
You'd think so and some do, but many, many soccer moms are still out driving their Suburbs and Tahoes, while their husbands drive giant Rams. It still doesn't hurt enough yet. $9/gallon oughta do it.
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My car may not be the most fuel efficient, but I have reasons for driving my HHR, and its certainly not a gas guzzler.
I try and organize carpools whenever Im going somewhere that I know other people are going.
I also drive as little as possible, though working 40 miles from home isnt very conservative.

I guess I didnt account for all the wasted mileage of those guzzlers.
 
#533
dmusic148 said:
You'd think so and some do, but many, many soccer moms are still out driving their Suburbs and Tahoes, while their husbands drive giant Rams. It still doesn't hurt enough yet. $9/gallon oughta do it.
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When oil spiked to $148 per barrel, you saw a lot of demand destruction that led to a price collapse.

Since that collapse to around $40 per barrel, oil prices have trended back upward to around $100 per barrel. Demand has remained strong with the higher prices.

Consider too the coal and natural gas used in electricity generation, oil for heating, etc. for reducing consumption. There's more to it than just driving cars.

Insulating your home, turning down the heat, turning off lights, not buying so much stuff and so on are all good steps for reducing a person's climate impact.
 
#536
MatticusMania said:
My car may not be the most fuel efficient, but I have reasons for driving my HHR, and its certainly not a gas guzzler.
I try and organize carpools whenever Im going somewhere that I know other people are going.
I also drive as little as possible, though working 40 miles from home isnt very conservative.

I guess I didnt account for all the wasted mileage of those guzzlers.
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I got a HHR rental. It was my best friends funeral and I flew in. And this was it. Take or leave. I recall it being butan red.

This was worse than when they didn't have my car and gave me an SUV.

Which was worse that the time I was an hour late and they rented my car after I called them and told them about the late take off.

Everytime SFO. Nothing personal slobake. Love the city. Even with the hills. The loins a great place to bring people who have never been to San Fran. And off menu in C town is a healthy if boring experience.

The Peace Monument. Darn, I miss that town!

But back to the point. In China they expect a person to work close to home. If an individual fails to do so they loose their housing subsidy. The translates to being homeless.

$10 a gallon gas will incent people to work close to home. This will eliminate traffic and allow worker to spend time with their families.

Or post on TB
 

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