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GoFundMe to Pay for Gear?

I have contributed to several band's crowd sourcing funds. I got one of a kind personalized merch in return. To me what I received for giving them some money for album or tour costs was way more valuable than what I paid for it. So it really comes down to perceived value. To some people the things I got were worthless, to others they may as well been solid gold. But for me it was a win win, got a tour and album and some sweet merch. So needless to say I can see this when it comes to production costs, new instrument costs seem kind of sketchy. That is unless they destroyed their instrument in punk blaze of glory and gave away video of the performance and pieces of destroyed instrument as incentive for the new build.
 
Seriously? Where are you getting those prices? 0.27 per for DM all in? You aren't going to pay that up around where I am. I've rolled out software distribution CDs (cheaper than audio) for a mega corp. And even ordering in units of 100K I couldn't touch that number dealing with one of the best duplicators in the industry.

You're also still ignoring the tour expenses. And the book publishing that went with the incentives. And the pile of other things that came out of wildly exceeding the target. When the campaign was originally announced ($100K) it was to fund album production and distribution. Basically to create a record company to manufacture and ship the already mastered album. Everything else that followed was either a stretch goal - or just added on by Ms. Palmer on her own after the campaign closed. And for what it's worth, her campaign ran out of time before it ran out of contributors. Which I think says something.

Whatever. I'm not an apologist for Amanda Palmer. She writes a good song, puts on a decent show, does good by her fans, and has paid more dues than many musicians out there. And through it all still remained true to what she's about musically. That's called "professionalism" and "artistic integrity." And it's something I admire her for.

I'm sorry whatever Ms. Palmer did has offended you. I don't see the problem myself. But that's me. I just can't get into the neo-socialist criticism that surrounds music on the one hand, or the unmitigated rank capitalist justifications for restrictively ridiculous IP legislation and greed on the other. I live in a simpler world when it comes to music.

If somebody puts out a good album (judged solely by the only criteria worth considering - the fact people actually like your work enough to buy it); or puts on a good show - and people want to see - and sometimes pay scalper prices to get in, who am I to say it's all wrong? Music is a luxury product and/or a leisure activity. And music recording and stage shows are a business. If somebody does well because of something they created, and people (none of whom are having a gun to held their head) flock to buy or see it, I don't see anything wrong with it. And if some musician does very well, it's still no cause to go trashing them for it.

I contributed to the campaign because I enjoyed that weirdness that was Dresden Dolls. And also (unapologetically) because they were out of the greater Boston music scene - which was my old stomping grounds in my "pro" days, and therefor it kindles some strong sentiments and conjures up fond memories for me. If you're any good (like Mark Sandman and Morphine were for example) and you're out of Boston - I'm your fan.

Back to Amanda Palmer's project. Right now I've got my book, vinyl and CD disks as promised - and all is well with me. Did Ms. Palmer make out like a bandit on the deal? I neither know nor care. I wanted to see her do the show, and get me some "product." And all of that was delivered without any undue fuss; after the fact "explanations;" or some idiot begging forgiveness because "Unforeseen circumstances make it impossible for us to complete our project or honor the incentives that were promised to our supporters. We're deeply saddened by this turn of events and ask for your forgiveness and understanding - and we humbly request that you be kind." notices. Which I have gotten from more than a few other music projects.

If she made money, and hasn't felt obligated to publish her full P&L from the project, I don't have a problem with that. Her campaign was on Kickstarter - not Gofundme. Kickstarter is unabashedly about funding projects with a business objective in mind. People who go there understand that. Gofundme is a tin cup for whoever is looking for some money. A different world altogether. With diferent rules and expectations.

All my expectations were met by Ms. Palmer's campaign. She delivered. As promised. :)

Look man, we're having friendly internet exchange of ideas here. I'm not getting worked up and hope you aren't either. Just want to make sure you understand my intentions aren't to offend you. We're shootin' the bull, not battling like gladiators.

I'm getting those DM cost from here:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And CD costs from Discmakers (5000 CDs duplicated with packaging comes to $0.35984 per CD): Invalid Link Removed

And padded mailers here (20K mailers comes out to $0.185 per mailer):
Uline Self-Seal Bubble CD Mailers - 7 1/4 x 8" S-10535 - Uline

So .27+.35+.18= $.82

Where I am making assumptions is that 85K CDs would bring that number down even lower. How much lower, I can't say.

As far as the tour goes, I have to agree with Steve Albini. Even the kid downtown playing drums on a bucket has to cover the production costs for his gig.
 
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Michael Gira of Swans does the reputable thing. He funds his projects by selling limited edition double CDs of live performances with original unique artwork. You get a great product for a fair price and the end result is a new Swans album.

Another great thing he does is to sell his CDs through his record company for a fair price and autographs them. For a few bucks more than Amazon you get the same product autographed and most of the money goes into the artists pocket.
 
Look man, we're having friendly internet exchange of ideas here. I'm not getting worked up and hope you aren't either. Just want to make sure you understand my intentions aren't to offend you. We're shootin' the bull, not battling like gladiators.

Agree. Didn't think we were battling. (I'd make a lousy gladiator.) Like you, I thought we were just talking.

And I wasn't offended - and I hope I didn't come across that way - or offend you. :) My tone was supposed to sound like a "Cool!" not a "BS!"

Chalk it up to amazement. It's been a few years since I've done much in the line of disk manufacturing so maybe it's changed more than I realize. Ditto for fulfillment although I do try to keep up with what's going on there because I have a few clients for my own IT services who are heavily dependent on shipping - so I need to know how they operate in order to help my clients effectively coordinate their order entry with the fulfillment house's pick&pack and mailing systems.

Question - as you know there are different ways to make copies of a CD. Are these disks from Diskmakers using the same process as a replicated stamped commercial disk? Or are they just "burned" duplicates?
 
Agree. Didn't think we were battling. (I'd make a lousy gladiator.) Like you, I thought we were just talking.

And I wasn't offended - and I hope I didn't come across that way - or offend you. :) My tone was supposed to sound like a "Cool!" not a "BS!"

Chalk it up to amazement. It's been a few years since I've done much in the line of disk manufacturing so maybe it's changed more than I realize. Ditto for fulfillment although I do try to keep up with what's going on there because I have a few clients for my own IT services who are heavily dependent on shipping - so I need to know how they operate in order to help my clients effectively coordinate their order entry with the fulfillment house's pick&pack and mailing systems.

Question - as you know there are different ways to make copies of a CD. Are these disks from Diskmakers using the same process as a replicated stamped commercial disk? Or are they just "burned" duplicates?

Cool, man. Just wanted to make sure we're good.

Y'no, I haven't used Discmakers in 15 years so I can't say what their process is. All I know is they send me a big giant catalog every 6 weeks. I believe they're the go-to one-stop-shop for independent artists. All the prices on their website end at 5000 copies so I don't know if there's somebody better for higher quantities. I've never sold 85K CDs. I'm just a jabroni. :whistle:
 
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Agree. Didn't think we were battling. (I'd make a lousy gladiator.) Like you, I thought we were just talking.

And I wasn't offended - and I hope I didn't come across that way - or offend you. :) My tone was supposed to sound like a "Cool!" not a "BS!"

Chalk it up to amazement. It's been a few years since I've done much in the line of disk manufacturing so maybe it's changed more than I realize. Ditto for fulfillment although I do try to keep up with what's going on there because I have a few clients for my own IT services who are heavily dependent on shipping - so I need to know how they operate in order to help my clients effectively coordinate their order entry with the fulfillment house's pick&pack and mailing systems.

Question - as you know there are different ways to make copies of a CD. Are these disks from Diskmakers using the same process as a replicated stamped commercial disk? Or are they just "burned" duplicates?

According to their website, any amount over 300 is replicated. Invalid Link Removed
 
Maybe...I haven't seen any of these videos.

Having said that, everyone and their grandma is on Youtube giving it away and all they want are views. None of them are passing the hat.

Actually, as an avid Youtube viewer (its replaced TV as my evening entertainment), a bunch of the more popular channels have Patreon pages set up to make donations to. "If you like what you've just watched, please consider donating to our Patreon account to support this channel so we can continue to bring you more content." Or "Thanks to all our supporters on Patreon for making this video possible."

But in the OP's case, the person isn't asking for $$ to support his youtube channel to bring more quality content in the future, but rather to help buy the guy a new bass. That's a bit different.

Now he is offering something for your donation - not just a song and dance. Well, sorta a song and dance, as he literally is offering show tickets or an actual song written? But overall my opinion of "gofundme" is people looking for handouts. People wanting money but not wanting to work for it. A custom bass costs $$$ - its easier to just ask for handouts than to get a part time job delivering pizzas to pay for it.
 
I've seen a couple YouTube videos lately of musician starting GoFundMe campaigns to pay for custom instruments to be built. I'm not going to post them here because my intention isn't to bash them personally. But I want to see what TB thinks about it.

Both videos I saw (and I'm sure there's plenty more that I haven't seen) are for national touring bands, so it's not like they're just some jabroni in his basement. They both offer incentives for donations ($20-ticket to a gig, $50-private lesson, $500-a private concert in your home, $1000-a song written on the new bass).

What do you guys think? Is this just as legit as Ben Folds and Mike Doughty starting GoFundMe campaigns to pay for their albums? Is helping a musician get his dream instrument contributing to their art?

Let's hear it TB.

An artist asking folks who like his prior work to help fund an effort is one thing; A kid saying "I don't want to work to buy here - FUND ME!" is quite another.
 
More concerns of how adults spend their money :whistle: :crying:

I admit, asking for a custom instrument is different, I am too much of a hack to even consider it. Bands doing albums, etc, never had a problem with it. The ignorance regarding this exchange being the equivalent of pan handling is sad.

Just worrrrkkkkkk hard and pay your dueeeesss and you willl make it mannnnnnnn. Maybe that worked for you 'back in the day' stuff's changed. And when I say stuff I mean economic exchanges, markets, and the music industry. Know too many stories of groups going broke after selling thousands of album sales and none stop touring and merch sales. But I guess they just didn't do it right? Anything that can cut the labels and big wigs out and put more money in the artists pocket, cool. And guess what, its funded by fully consensual individuals who have an interest and motivation in the band's work.
 
...Anything that can cut the labels and big wigs out and put more money in the artists pocket, cool. And guess what, its funded by fully consensual individuals who have an interest and motivation in the band's work.

In this case, the money would be going into the pocket of a luthier.

...and just because something is consensual doesn't mean it isn't ethically dubious.
 
If I was to order a custom bass from a luthier here on TalkBass, do I get to wait until it's done and sent to me and then I pay for it? Or do I have to put some or all of the money down up-front before they'll even start working on it?

This is different. This money goes towards materials, shop expenses , ect. The builder does not make any money (profit) until the product is finished. I'm contractor and very familiar with this method. It would be sad if I started a GFM page to ask people to "give" me money to buy tools. I buy tools as I need them and can justify the purchase. If a touring musician does not have 4k to buy a bass he can budget and plan for it. The question you asked is a good example of why I believe a GFM page is unnecessary. It takes time to build these basses.....the builders I have worked with have been very easy to work with.
 
I have very mixed feeling on this. If someone wants to do it, and others want to help - everyone wins. Yet my gut tells me it's completely wrong.

I'm in the process of writing my first book. There are a lot of expenses in writing a book, and it's winding up costing me thousands. Starting a gofundme page was an option. Lots of people do it. I considered it. I also believe in working for the things I want. I'll have a much greater sense of pride in it's completion having done it all on my own. I also believe there are spiritual principles behind this kind of thing, and that we do actually reap what we sow (not a big Bible believer, but believe there's lots of wisdom in it). I always had bigtime issues with money, until I started viewing money as energy that flows through us. We use it as a tool for exchanges and create our own balances and imbalances. If I trust it will be there, it will - if I try to take what isn't mine, or start worrying about it I believe I upset that balance. I'm completely aware of how "new age" and ridiculous this sounds to some :), but it works. For me, anyway. So yeah, the gofundme thing doesn't sit well with me. Especially for something like a bass guitar. If it works for others, who am I to judge.
 
I support/have supported independent, local bands that set up a GoFundMe account for future albums. That stuff is expensive! Like, pre-pay for the album and get a shirt and the album kinda thing. I was going to buy it anyway, so it's an advantage to both parties for the long term.

I don't support musicians buying gear they can't afford themselves. Some people are willing to give their money over gladly. So take it as you will. I just don't support it.
 
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Some of the actual charitable ones are a good way for friends and family to assist someone eg. Someone going through a terminal illness, a house fire etc. Then there are THE OTHER SORT. The complete tossers who somehow think the world owes them something. My personal favs lately is the friend who wanted money for cosmetic dentistry, and another who wanted one of those vip - meet the band kind of packages because her fav band is touring. Get stuffed. The ones to record an album? I kind of get that if you actually receive a copy of it for your $20 donation. Help buy someone an instrument? Go buy it yourself.
 
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