Going ampless: only for bands that play decent venues?

[pklima]

Guitarist has, entirely reasonably, been thinking about avoiding having to haul a cab to gigs, going ampless and even going to IEMs.

Is that just guaranteed to go badly for a noisy originals band which will probably play opener slots for other local originals bands, often in clubs with cheap PAs? I can imagine just needing everything in FoH would irritate many a soundman when the rest of the bill has amps on stage that might not even need reinforcement. Or would less stage clutter and volume be welcome?

I know expecting PAs to be able to handle bass is another matter, but is at least guitar doable?

 

[Passinwind]

Guitarist has, entirely reasonably, been thinking about avoiding having to haul a cab to gigs, going ampless and even going to IEMs.

Is that just guaranteed to go badly for a noisy originals band which will probably play opener slots for other local originals bands, often in clubs with cheap PAs? I can imagine just needing everything in FoH would irritate many a soundman when the rest of the bill has amps on stage that might not even need reinforcement. Or would less stage clutter and volume be welcome?

I know expecting PAs to be able to handle bass is another matter, but is at least guitar doable?

Unless the bands you open for also use IEMs and there's a proper stage splitter, I foresee heartache.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

You really need your own In ear rack for this, IE your own digital mixer with a split, as a guy who does sound if be happy with that, its pretty common now.

 

[_Some Dude]

I had a guitarist that was ampless. He's the lead singer, and only used guitar for a few songs, so we thought it'd be worth ditching the amp (used a Strymon Iridium).

After hearing how it sounded in FOH a few times we went back to mic'ing an amp.

There was also the issue of having to put him in our monitors so we could hear what he was playing, which caused arguments when we had to share monitors.

 

[buldog5151bass]

You need to be able to count on the PA, someone setting up and running the PA who knows what they are doing, and if no IEMs, the monitor setup. Your situation does not seem conducive to the idea.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

I ran club sound up to about ten years ago. It was the sort of venue you might be talking about, old racks and stacks, lots of mackie and similar.

we could have made ampless work but the band would need to be quick. We aimed for 15 min turn around on 3-4 band bills so no time to mess about.

no one seems to want a guitar through more than a mid sized combo anyway so tell guitboi to nut up.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

You want an IEM rig. There are tons of videos on YouTube on how to build one at various price points. You all sound the same to yourselves regardless of venue, but FOH is up to the house. So it really depends on how good the venues are that you play.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

The bottom of the barrel clubs are not compatible with iem setups. Those are often a poor quality “vocal only” PA.

Also featuring bad or no monitors!

 

[bherman]

For your particular application, I don't see it. Not sure what your version of "opener" slots are, but if its 1 short set, seems like too much of a pain and too many uncertainties. Could only see it if you were always using your own pa and didnt have to worry about dialing it in each time.

FWIW, my current band, when I first started with them, was running everything direct (two guitars, drums, 3 vocals) through a dual Bose system. I used an amp but fed into the PA. After a while, the two guitarists decided that they preferred using amps and miking them into the pa (except for mandolin, which one of the guitar players uses on 3-4 songs).

 

[KenD]

In my humble, old school opinion, trusting your sound to an unknown soundman using a FOH system of unknown lineage is a leap of faith at the best of times.

What you describe seems more like a leap into an abyss.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

The originals oriented clubs I played at and mixed in typically had 3 band bills, sometimes 4. Bands played 1 45 minute slot. Basically a festival setup in mini.

I did some acts with IEM setups but those were usually headliners, who had a reasonable pre show soundcheck. Other acts got a line check and...GO!

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Done right with a good PA,the mix can be clean and detailed! Just had a band last weekend that went all direct, carried their own IEM rig. It was a good day and I had dare say a great mix going.

 

[LiptonJigglers]

The last original band I was in, the lead guitar/vocals went IEM. Yes, it worked but it caused some unnecessary headaches from others in the band that didn't have the patience, desire, mouth and thought control, to get to know how things worked.
On-stage at a live venue, the guy in question always had issues with getting the mix right.
Personally, I like the concept, however the final result has way to many variables of an influential nature.

 

[Wasnex]

It not the quality of the venue that matters. It's the quality of the PA and audio staff.

For quick turn-around gigs, you need your own dedicated IEM mixer with a split on the inputs. The idea is everyone's IEM mix is dialed in, so you only need a line check and to make minor adjustments to the mixer's channel gains. In order for this to work, you need to use the system regularly and avoid tweaking the preamp or modeler you use to get a sound. This may mean you need a dedicated preamp or modeler that is only used with this specific system.

Setup involves plugging all of the sound sources into split snake that is permanently patched to the inputs of your IEM mixer. The split is patched to the FOH stage box. Setup can go very fast with an expert doing the patching, but can be a huge goat rope if the person doing the patching does not know what he/she is doing.

If you use acoustic drums, it's a bit more complicated because you have to mic up the kit. For best results you need to always use the same mics and be consistent with mic placement and aiming.

@s0c9 is a very good resource on this subject.

 

[amper]

Guitarist has, entirely reasonably, been thinking about avoiding having to haul a cab to gigs, going ampless and even going to IEMs.

Is that just guaranteed to go badly for a noisy originals band which will probably play opener slots for other local originals bands, often in clubs with cheap PAs? I can imagine just needing everything in FoH would irritate many a soundman when the rest of the bill has amps on stage that might not even need reinforcement. Or would less stage clutter and volume be welcome?

I know expecting PAs to be able to handle bass is another matter, but is at least guitar doable?

Quality FOH PA is becoming more and more common, but it is by no means ubiquitous or universal, at least, not yet.

I would suggest that if you are planning on going ampless, you should at this point first build your own IEM monitoring rig, and be absolutely expert at getting on and off stage with it in less than 5 minutes, unless you are exclusively playing venues where you will have more time.

Most of my career as a gigging musician in an indie rock band on the US East Coast has been spent playing typical small rock clubs with 3-4 bands on a bill each night, and no one wants to put up with bands who take forever to get their gear on and off.

 

[Altitude]

It not the quality of the venue that matters. It's the quality of the PA and audio staff.

For quick turn-around gigs, you need your own dedicated IEM mixer with a split on the inputs. The idea is everyone's IEM mix is dialed in, so you only need a line check and to make minor adjustments to the mixer's channel gains. In order for this to work, you need to use the system regularly and avoid tweaking the preamp or modeler you use to get a sound. This may mean you need a dedicated preamp or modeler that is only used with this specific system.

Setup involves plugging all of the sound sources into split snake that is permanently patched to the inputs of your IEM mixer. The split is patched to the FOH stage box. Setup can go very fast with an expert doing the patching, but can be a huge goat rope if the person doing the patching does not know what he/she is doing.

If you use acoustic drums, it's a bit more complicated because you have to mic up the kit. For best results you need to always use the same mics and be consistent with mic placement and aiming.

@s0c9 is a very good resource on this subject.

I’m becoming more and more convinced that a modern electronic drum kit solves profoundly more problems than it creates. Starting with the fact that a natural drum kit sounds like crap in the rooms almost all of us play in. I’m surprised more groups don’t use them.

 

[Geri O]

I’m becoming more and more convinced that a modern electronic drum kit solves profoundly more problems than it creates. Starting with the fact that a natural drum kit sounds like crap in the rooms almost all of us play in. I’m surprised more groups don’t use them.

Normally, I'd say ohhh, icckkk to an electronic kit. However....

A month ago, our band leader found a great deal on a set of the Roland V-Drums, the latest upper-line version, and put them in his practice room. They replaced a really wretched set of older E-drums and I wasn't expecting much.

But oh my Gosh, these new V-Drums sound great. I'm a semi-retired pro audio guy and still a recording engineer, so I can say I have bit of a wear for drum tones. Even the nuances of hitting the head in various places and even the cymbals and hats were crazy authentic. I was positively blown away. And as we rehearsed with them, I totally forgot that the drums were electronic. We have a fantastic drummer who tunes and maintains his drum kits very well. Even he liked playing them and found some adjustments that made the V-Drums sound any better.

Would we use them live on a gig? Not likely, but never say never.....

This was a little off-topic, but I had to put in a word for the Roland V-Drums if anyone is considering going that route.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

In my experience good drummers sound good wherever they play.

I never had any problem making a well tuned and played kit sound great

 

[Altitude]

Normally, I'd say ohhh, icckkk to an electronic kit. However....

A month ago, our band leader found a great deal on a set of the Roland V-Drums, the latest upper-line version, and put them in his practice room. They replaced a really wretched set of older E-drums and I wasn't expecting much.

But oh my Gosh, these new V-Drums sound great. I'm a semi-retired pro audio guy and still a recording engineer, so I can say I have bit of a wear for drum tones. Even the nuances of hitting the head in various places and even the cymbals and hats were crazy authentic. I was positively blown away. And as we rehearsed with them, I totally forgot that the drums were electronic. We have a fantastic drummer who tunes and maintains his drum kits very well. Even he liked playing them and found some adjustments that made the V-Drums sound any better.

Would we use them live on a gig? Not likely, but never say never.....

This was a little off-topic, but I had to put in a word for the Roland V-Drums if anyone is considering going that route.

They’ve gotten loads better in the last 10 years or so!

 

[s0c9]

Normally, I'd say ohhh, icckkk to an electronic kit. However....

A month ago, our band leader found a great deal on a set of the Roland V-Drums, the latest upper-line version, and put them in his practice room. They replaced a really wretched set of older E-drums and I wasn't expecting much.

But oh my Gosh, these new V-Drums sound great. I'm a semi-retired pro audio guy and still a recording engineer, so I can say I have bit of a wear for drum tones. Even the nuances of hitting the head in various places and even the cymbals and hats were crazy authentic. I was positively blown away. And as we rehearsed with them, I totally forgot that the drums were electronic. We have a fantastic drummer who tunes and maintains his drum kits very well. Even he liked playing them and found some adjustments that made the V-Drums sound any better.

Would we use them live on a gig? Not likely, but never say never.....

This was a little off-topic, but I had to put in a word for the Roland V-Drums if anyone is considering going that route.

Easter Sunday outdoor sunrise church SR gig, was supposed to be an acoustic drum kit. Instead they brought a no-name e-kit.
OK, no prob right? Think again. ONLY ONE line to PA.
Mixing drums with the only control being EQ on 1 channel is quite the challenge.
But yeah, the TOTL Roland stuff I’ve worked with is PDG.