Got a P, want more grind or clank, get a J?

[butterfingers1]

Single coil p bass. I have the Squier Classic Vibe 50s p bass. Can be finicky and noisy compared to my 80s Ibanez (with two active large humbucker soapbar pickups), but the sound is clear, sharp, woody and warm. The Ibanez is much less sensitive to technique and setup, but sounds muddled and lifeless in comparison. I view these two as the extreme ends of bass tones, with regular p and j basses in between. The quality of Squiers is such that I would get two for the price of one Fender Player. More fun and less late nights on bass forums trying to read about what one is missing out on.

 

[butterfingers1]

I also agree that lowering the strings (action) on a p bass will give all the desired clank and grind.

 

[Hypercaffium]

Music Man all the way it’s what they do.

I agree. I recently bought a Caprice PJ bass and MM voicing is somehow very audible. Plenty of grind and clank when digging hard.

 

[TH63]

A j-style bass is typically going to give you a tone that is more flexible than a p (due to the inclusion of two pickups) and is potentially less mid-range-heavy (particularly if you run both pickups full on). Neither bass should have any high-end roll off unless you use the tone knob to roll off the high end. Neither bass should be "clearer" than the other unless you happen to interpret the mid-range focus as impacting clarity. It is possible that you might interpret a less mid-range-heavy tone as more like a piano.

"Grind" means something different to everyone, but I would not say there is any objective reason why a j would offer "more grind." If anything I would go with the p for that.

Well said!

 

[stuntbass77]

I hear P basses with “grind” and I have heard ones with a “piano tone”. I pride myself on being able to tell the difference between a P and a J but have been fooled before. One needs to take into account the amp and the recording process when taking about tones heard on an album. Trying to replicate tones back when most amps and boards were tube driven is harder these days. For instance a P bass straight into a modern recording interface/computer will sound much different then a P bass that is going into a Neve broad and is split ( half direct signal and half perhaps a ampeg b15, which I wish I had ). Bottom line is other factors come into play that make getting that tone you looking for more difficult. I myself am learning to love the basses I have and learning to make them work. I spent WAY to many years chasing the perfect tone, for me it is unobtainable. Best of luck !

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

The P bass has a low mid hump (which is different on every string) due to the pickup location - that location gives you a comb filter, which means there are a lot of dips and bumps in the frequency response of each string, but the most prominent one is the low mid hump. Adding the second pickup, a J has a different comb filter (again, each string has a different filter) when both pickups are on. It has a dip (on each string) about the same frequency that the P has a hump, and a hump an octave higher. Then, more dips and humps ad infinitum.

A P has more low mids than a J. But, an octave higher, the J has more higher mids.

One zigs where the other zags. They're just different. And of course, one of them, if you dial back a pickup, hums. But I digress.

Excellent info! Also, the Jazz Bass has dual single coils wired in parallel; when both pickups are at equal volume, they function as a hum-canceller, which I find was a brilliant idea in it's design. I personally find parallel wiring to have an inherent mid scoop, but IMO the mid scoop is a big part of the J-Bass having greater definition compared to a P-Bass.

The P-Bass' split pickup is a humbucker wired in series, which typically has greater output and a fuller tone vs parallel to my ears.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Don't forget that the AMP is very important in that sound too. "Grind" and "clank" is Ampeg SVT all day.

+1. Especially when it's a P-Bass into an SVT. It's a magical pairing IMO.

I also think GK's RB Series heads provide some nice grind, grunt, and clank.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Love my P, the low mid hump and that classic P bass tone.
However i'm on a quest for less high end roll off, more grind and clearer "piano" like tones.
Should i get a J? Will it give me that? Not planning on ever selling the P, but pondering adding a J to the collection

Also love Geddy's tone, a classic Ric tone (but will never afford a Ric) and some classic 80s tones that i'm fairly sure that were produced on a J eg. OMD, Skids etc

I've owned one P-Bass in particular that had high end sizzle for days, and it was a Fullerton-era '57 Reissue model. Lightweight alder body with a maple neck/fingerboard. If there is any one bass that I could have back, it's the one.

I didn't own a tube amp in the days I owned it, but it still copped Entwistle's "Live at Leeds" tone very well, it's high end was like a razor when it's tone knob was dimed.

A simple setup on your P-Bass may help get you the grind and clank you're looking for, and save you the money of buying a new bass. Tighten your trussrod until your neck is almost straight, then adjust each string saddle to where you're getting a little fret buzz when you hit harder than normal. Then restring your bass with stainless steel roundwounds.

 

[boristhespider7]

Single coil p bass. I have the Squier Classic Vibe 50s p bass. Can be finicky and noisy compared to my 80s Ibanez (with two active large humbucker soapbar pickups), but the sound is clear, sharp, woody and warm. The Ibanez is much less sensitive to technique and setup, but sounds muddled and lifeless in comparison. I view these two as the extreme ends of bass tones, with regular p and j basses in between. The quality of Squiers is such that I would get two for the price of one Fender Player. More fun and less late nights on bass forums trying to read about what one is missing out on.

I do have a soft spot for single coil P's. I also used to have a Squier CV 50's P. Certainly had some serious attack to it compared to the split P...i can see why they caused havoc on speakers early recording studios. I don't remember it being clearer or having more top end than the split P, but i may be wrong, this was a few yrs back

 

[butterfingers1]

Right for the attack and shrillness of single coil p bass. Rolling off the tone a bit helps a lot, maybe also high action to reduce neck clacking, and if necessary lowering the pickup to reduce shrillness. With these adjustments all that remains is the beautiful clear tone. A finicky instrument, but I have lots of fun with mine.

 

[Joseph Long]

I think we need a better way of expressing the sounds we are trying to describe.Clank, Grind,Thump,Twang,Umf,sounds like Berry Oakley on the Eat a Peach album,Sounds like Jack Bruce on the Disraeli Gears album but with more mids and Highs like Chris Squire yet befitting a Bebop quartet in the traditional sense,like the way Ray Brown sounds.Can we work on making this more clear instead of more confusing?

 

[JohnArnson]

From what you describe you would want a P/J bass, love mine.

Just keep in mind that the J pickup likely wont be all that useful soloed.

But you'll have a P and with both pickups full on you'll have the tone you are looking for.

The J adds that extra clank, grind and bite to the P pickup.

And I'd say even more so than with 2 J pickups.

 

[Hypercaffium]

From what you describe you would want a P/J bass, love mine.
Just keep in mind that the J pickup likely wont be all that useful soloed.

That was my experience, until I tried a Music Man Caprice, which I bought and love.
Both pickups are humbuckers, so you can solo them without having hum. Plus, the bridge pickup is fatter sounding than a standard J bridge pickup and bridge pickups on PJs in general, at least in my experience. Neck (P) pickup is still more prominent, definitely more useful for my needs, fatter and punchier. Try a Caprice.

 

[JohnArnson]

That was my experience, until I tried a Music Man Caprice, which I bought and love.
Both pickups are humbuckers, so you can solo them without having hum. Plus, the bridge pickup is fatter sounding than a standard J bridge pickup and bridge pickups on PJs in general, at least in my experience. Neck (P) pickup is still more prominent, definitely more useful for my needs, fatter and punchier. Try a Caprice.

I use a P/J set of EMG Geezer Butler pickups, and the J is stacked and hum free too, but relatively weak compared to the P pickup and not really useful soloed.

The extra grind and bite it adds to the P pickup though when they are both full on is just perfect to me, and since that is the only setting I ever use anyway I don't really mind that the J pickup soloed is not really useful.