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Double Bass GR Bass AT110 / Small Cab Shootout

#41
Since I’ve gone to powered cabinets, I really don’t consider what the cabinet is rated at. Granted all my cabinets are 8 Ohms, but only one of them has a bypass switch
on it’s internal power amplifier. I don’t recall ever being dissatisfied with any of the 8 ohm cabinet’s I’ve owned. Audiokenisis The TC-112 was magnificent because it was optimized for a 500 watt combo head, it was 30 lbs. My MAS 4x5.5 is the most articulate and warm cabinet I’ve ever owned. The MAS 1/8’s are wonderful as well.
Fortunately, I’ve never had to schlep them on and of Subway cars with my instrument in tow. That’s where the really ultra light stuff is essential. That said, my favorite amp is a decent house P.A. With the Grace Felix. One trip in and one trip out.
 
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#42
BTW, if the cabs are built the same and only the driver impedance differs, the excursion of the drivers for the two 8 Ohms cab is lower than for the single 4 Ohms cab at the same volume. That results in a higher air pressure inside the cab that acts like a spring wanting to push the cone back to it’s normal position (beyond other similar acting forces like from the cone support).

Specially with small cab volumes and closed cabs (but ported ones too, just less), the air pressure leads to a non-linear behavior of the forces on the cone. The more the smaller the cab volume is. (With the same amount of cone displacement inside and outside the absolute value of the air pressure difference to the steady state differs.)

I have no idea how much of that is audible, but beyond changes in the waveform by pushing an amp towards its limits that might be a factor why the cab itself (mainly the volume but also depending on the way the air goes through a ported cab) can have an influence on changing the sound when pushed harder.
 
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#44
T
Frank Miller said:
I grew up in NYC and had to schlep a 1920 Juzek and an 86-pound Ampeg B15 up and down the subway stairs all the time in the ‘60s and ‘70s. I switched to Polytone in the late 1970s and to Euphonic Audio as soon as their products became available. (I wish I had a Wizzy10 and a Doubler back in the 1960s. It would have saved a lot of chiropractor bills.)
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Amen Frank,
I did that as well. It was way easier in Indiana and Ohio
 
#45
Ric Vice said:
T


Amen Frank,
I did that as well. It was way easier in Indiana and Ohio
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When I was on the trains and subways in Shanghai and Suzhou, I had a really nice ply from the Shen factory in Suzhou (you have to take delivery in Shanghai...some strange tax reason. But there are bow makers and violin makers EVERYWHERE in Suzhou! If I recall correctly, it is the bow-making capital of the world! But I digress....

I lugged it around everywhere with a 1st gen Doubler and a 1x10 4ohm cab from Schroeder (less than 17 pounds or something). I stuck it on a chair, angled it back, and made that work. I wish I had a wheel or something. It's REALLY hard to actually FIND some items we take for granted in the USA.
 
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#46
How tough would it be to add an Ice power module to something like this??

I love the Felix, and would like to use it all the time, but I also would just like to use a combo for convenience, or next best thing a separate- small head that fits in the gig bag, rather than carry the Felix separately.. but the only powered cab out there seems like the MAS.
 
#48
Ben Rolston said:
As a few people have noted (@flatback @Ric Vice) I've been on a tear recently trying to find a cabinet for my specific use case. I live in Brooklyn without a car, so weight is top priority. Next on the list is something that can cover mid / higher volume gigs. I tried a few of the tiny options but found that the situations they were useful for were also the ones I could cover acoustically. Next on my priority list was something that played nicely with Felix, as I've found that the most helpful piece of gear for the amp du jour gig life here in NY. Since I've tried so many cabs recently I thought I could reconstruct a bit of a shootout. Of course this is a case of personal taste, so no offense if I don't like the thing you're currently loving :)

Tiny options:
  • Phil Jones Double 4 -- Truly too quiet to be useful for me
  • MAS mini powered 16 -- Barely too quiet, beautiful sound until higher volumes, then a bit muffled / claustrophobic
Acoustic Image:
  • New Style Coda -- An upshot + 5" mid speaker, for its size too quiet, especially vs. the doubleshot, the upfiring style is rough on outdoor gigs
  • Doubleshot -- Seems like the perfect cab, but in practicality didn't work for me. The omnidirectional sound meant I was too loud for other band members / the audience while still not getting what I needed. Additionally the combination of the Doubleshot + the Clarus SL had some really untameable low end -- even with the hpf up and the low knob down. Generally didn't respond to EQ well (unfortunately classic AI in my experience). Puts out enough volume but it's definitely not very efficient -- same volume as the Barefaced and GR Bass which are 8ohm cabs.
Other options:
  • MAS powered 18 -- I had this cab for a long time, perhaps the best sounding cab I've owned. When fully loaded with Felix + cables, about 33lbs, too heavy! The commute home from a gig at 3am was brutal, up a big hill, up 3 flights of stairs -- left me about ready to quit bass :vomit:
  • QSC CP8 -- Brilliant sound at home, but really not designed to pump out bass frequencies, had some port chuffing and limiting on the gig. Nice size, but only medium weight, 21lbs
  • Barefaced 110T -- Borrowed this one thankfully :) Great fat electric bass sound, but the voicing of the 10in speakers brings out a bit too much of the piezo quack. The port (or resonator) on the bottom made me worried about room to room sound differences.
  • Trickfish 110 -- I didn't try this one, but some of the features are great -- dome tweeter, kickback stand. Perhaps would be like a flatter sounding Barefaced? Heavier though at 21lbs
What I landed on:
  • GR Bass AT110 -- Initially I thought I wasn't going to be able to get this cabinet as the US distributor isn't stocking them, but I was able to order it from bassdirect in the UK. Sound is great, more like a backline cabinet (Aguilar 112 or a 410) than the MAS / AI stuff -- a range of comfortable volume, plush fat low end, clear sounding mids, the added definition of a tweeter (vs a mid driver). ONLY 11lbs !!!! That's actually also the downside, it feels a little too light, almost like a toy, but I think I'll be able get used to it :cool: Pricewise the other GR bass stuff is sort of hilariously expensive, though now I'm inclined to think its worth considering if it fits your needs. I got this for $650 ish shipped from the UK -- cheaper than the Barefaced, Trickfish, same price as a passive MAS 18 (when they were available), and only slightly more than the Doubleshot. Added bonus, it sounds great with my old P-Bass, not too hifi. I'd love to try the combo that you got @kerrycares at some point.
Pics with Felix for size
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Ben , I’m still rockin my 12” 800 watt combo and loving it. Come by anytime you’re home.I moved to Howell on a 10 acre horse ranch.
I also picked up an AT210 for my louder electric gigs.
Great hassle free, super light , sweet sounding gear.
 
#50
Ben Rolston said:
  • Sound is great, more like a backline cabinet (Aguilar 112 or a 410) than the MAS / AI stuff -- a range of comfortable volume, plush fat low end, clear sounding mids, the added definition of a tweeter (vs a mid driver).
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I'd be interested to read some further elaboration of the difference in sound between the AT110 and "the MAS / AI stuff" -- which I'm surprised to see lumped together -- if you wouldn't mind. I have no experience with Aguilar's products, and "a backline cabinet" doesn't really conjur up much of an image in my mind. It'd be much appreciated.
 
#51
I can't speak for Ben and have not tried the GR cab but having owned both MAS cabs and an AI Doubleshot along with more traditional bass guitar rigs I think I know where he's coming from. To me the the MAS and AI sounds very different but neither punches low mids forward like most bass cabs. Both are certainly punchy in their own way but the AI is more tight in the lows with it's sealed cab and spread out with the side firing drivers and the MAS stuff has such deep lows that there is less emphasis on low mid punch. Maybe you could say that the MAS punches all the way to the bottom more than standard bass cabs so the low mids aren't as prominent. If you want the cut-though ability that a cab with a lot of low mids provides neither the AI or the MAS would be my first choice. Again I haven't played the AT110 so maybe Ben has a different take.
 
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#52
basss said:
To me the the MAS and AI sounds very different but neither punches low mids forward like most bass cabs. Both are certainly punchy in their own way but the AI is more tight in the lows with it's sealed cab and spread out with the side firing drivers and the MAS stuff has such deep lows that there is less emphasis on low mid punch. Maybe you could say that the MAS punches all the way to the bottom more than standard bass cabs so the low mids aren't as prominent.
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Since my setup is unique, I can’t really speak to anything but my own setup. I’m a MAS player, admittedly they are not what I’d call mid forward like other cabs
that are available like Barefaced, Aguilar, et. al. With my specific setup, the Ehrlund EAP, Grace Designs Felix, and powered MAS 1/8, with a pole mount I don’t seem to have any issues hearing the Bass or being heard. I do use different cabinets for different ensembles, so for concerts I have a powered MAS 4x5.5 which has a wider dispersion pattern and 4 tweeters arranged vertically inside the 4x5.5’s housed in the side wings of the cabinet.
 
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#54
I totally agree with what @basss wrote above. I'd add that the GR fits in a mix in a fairly "normal" way for electrified music. Thats low mid punch for sure but also a slightly brighter top end which helps with note definition. Part of why the GR is working for me is that it's more similar to the house amps I often play through. This week was a good example: Thursday and Friday I played through a Markbass combo, Saturday I played my own rig.

@vanderbrook The GR is perfect if you're looking for a great sounding, and hilariously light, example of a fairly typical bass cabinet. In comparison to the GK MB112 you've got in your signature I'd guess the GR is more even, has more definition, speaks quicker, has better power handling, and is 19 pounds lighter, BUT it's not a categorical difference. The MAS / AI gear is different, for better and for worse.

MAS / AI:

I lumped them together because both aim for a more naturalistic sound, and delivery of that sound for the newer AI stuff, BUT they really sound and feel very different in practice.
 
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#57
Ben Rolston said:
Curious to see how you like it! The 2x8 or 112 could be good options too if you play larger gigs / consistently drive to gigs.
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Those other options are considerably pricier. I ordered an AT110; when they went to ship it, they discovered all they had in the warehouse was one empty box. So I'll be waiting for one to come in next month.
I am also in the process of acquiring a MAS 1,8. One of the two cabs will stay, and the other will go.
I'll post my impressions here. Thanks again for sharing yours.
 
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#59
vanderbrook said:
.......when they went to ship it, they discovered all they had in the warehouse was one empty box. So I'll be waiting for one to come in next month.
I am also in the process of acquiring a MAS 1/8........ Thanks again for sharing yours.
Click to expand...

If the folks fulfilling orders can't tell the difference between an empty box and one with a speaker in it, I guess that bodes well for how light they are :D. I'll wait until their in circulation long enough to
see if folks are hanging on to them or not. It's always been a good measure for me, to see if they come up for sale frequently on TalkBass and Reverb or (like the Grace Felix) only come up infrequently.
My take is that whether people are hanging on to them is one of best determiners about a cabinets performance, along with peoples testimonials here on TB. Just my take of course.

PS: There seems to be one for sale on Reverb for $1,010.00 plus shipping from a concern in Hong Kong. Maybe they got the one that box was intended for. :) That's a hefty markup for sure.
 
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#60
Ben Rolston said:
I totally agree with what @basss wrote above. I'd add that the GR fits in a mix in a fairly "normal" way for electrified music. Thats low mid punch for sure but also a slightly brighter top end which helps with note definition. Part of why the GR is working for me is that it's more similar to the house amps I often play through. This week was a good example: Thursday and Friday I played through a Markbass combo, Saturday I played my own rig.

@vanderbrook The GR is perfect if you're looking for a great sounding, and hilariously light, example of a fairly typical bass cabinet. In comparison to the GK MB112 you've got in your signature I'd guess the GR is more even, has more definition, speaks quicker, has better power handling, and is 19 pounds lighter, BUT it's not a categorical difference. The MAS / AI gear is different, for better and for worse.

MAS / AI:

I lumped them together because both aim for a more naturalistic sound, and delivery of that sound for the newer AI stuff, BUT they really sound and feel very different in practice.
Click to expand...
+1 on a low mid voiced cab for loud upright gigs. I've had the MAS 18 out on a couple gigs that started pretty acoustic but devolved into loud electric by the end. The 18 worked fine but I had to shape the lows quite a bit as there is just so much going on there with upright. For that stuff I would have prefered a cab that cut through better, a more traditional bass guitar oriented voice. I usually prefer a tighter low end with upright as piezos can put out a ton of unnatural sounding low end with a deep voiced cab. The tighter low end voice of the Doubleshot has so far been great for me but I don't have much experience with it on louder gigs.
 
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